Blocking knees while in clinch

[kh_s]

How do you guys block knees when your the one actually in control (so that you can`t block with your forearms) ?

[Khun Kao]

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that you have your opponent trapped in the inside head/neck control position? If that is the case, and your opponent is still able to deliver effective knee strikes, then you are doing something wrong.

If you don't have full control, then there are a couple of options.

First and foremost, if you are not in the process of delivering a knee strike yourself, you should be keeping your hips glues as tightly to your opponents body as possible. Don't give your opponent room to knee you! You need to square up your hips to your opponents so that when he attempts to knee, you can easily thrust your hip forwards on the same side to nullify the strike.

Another option is to twist/flip/turn your opponent in the clinch. You pull down on his head/neck with your one hand as you step back and twist, and you push with your other hand. It doesn't matter which direction you go because either direction will take all the heat off his knee and leave his scrambling to regain his balance.

You can also perform a raised knee block. If you are not actively kneeing, raise one of your knees into his body and lean back to thrust the knee forwards a bit. Pull on his head/neck/shoulders at the same time to stretch him out a little, and even hook your instep inside his knee. When you're ready to deliver your own knee strike, quickly drop the raised knee and fire one in with the other leg, then leave that knee raised until you're ready to strike again.

The final defense I'll tell you about is what I refer to as the Knee Escape. Like the Raised Knee Block listed above, you lift your knee into your opponents midsection and lean back, but you turn your leg over so that your shin is parallel to the floor. You knee should be on his one hip, and your ankle/instep hooked onto his other hip. Reach with the arm on the same side as the raised knee so that it is deep behind his head. Try to get the back of his neck cradled in the crook of your arm. With your other hand, try to trap his arm and keep control of it. Now push forward with your knee and shin into his hips, and pull with your arm to really get him stretched out. From this position, you can either relax quickly and take the control position to begin delivering knees of your own (preferable), or wait until the referee breaks the two of you.

Hope this helps!

Khun Kao

[darrianation]

This is what I was taught(the basics cliching 101) I still use it 20 yrs. later and it still works.
Lets say you already have the clinch.
Control: Hands- back of opponents head (not on neck). Cross wrists with palms facing towards you. Now elbows/forearms pressed firmly into opponents collar bone with forearms sqeezed tight around neck, use as a fulcrum to pull opponents head down into your chest.
Lower your chin into back of opponents head to keep it down. place your wieght on him to throw him off balance. *Always keep moving, throw him left/right,foward/back and diagonal so he cant regain his balance. Also widen your stance a bit to keep your own balance. I personly keep it short- right knee, left knee then a hard push (his head) into a right high kick(round kick).

the key is to keep his head down and him off balance. He shouldnt be able to knee you. Hope this helps.

[Khun Kao]

Oh, poop! I just came back and reread my message and realize that I did not answer the original question. I veered off on a tangent. Sorry about that.

Darrianation is EXACTLY CORRECT! Only my instructors never trained me to place my chin on top of my opponents head, but thats just a variation in style.

Khun Kao

[kh_s]

Hmm, well it was still good information, and maybe my clinch WAS wrong, I was taught it at my gym, but that class was clearly no good to be a thai boxing class. It is not intense, no skip roping no shadow boxing (rarely do them, maybe once or twice actually, and was not taught the main basic Thai kick mechanics. its why I am quitting). But I didn`t state the type of clinch. But the clinch I ment was just something U have both your forearms on the dudes neck/head area and you lace your fingers. But the thing is when I do this I can barely see the opponents bottom/leg area (i`ll have to kinda slant sideways to see), so I can`t see if he knee strikes, am I doing it wrong ? Or is this type of clinch does not even exists at all ?

[Khun Kao]

DON'T LACE YOUR FINGERS!!!!!

Bad move! You should cross your hands/wrists, or grasp palms, but don't interlace your fingers. There are reasons and reasons why this is bad, but suffice to say that one of the most important reasons why is that it ties both of your hands up and makes it hard to release the hold to do something else if your opponent begins some sort of a counter.

But, going back to the original question. If you have the inside head/neck control position, you should not have to worry about what your opponent is doing. In this position, you *should* have your opponent bent over with his head trapped to your chest. You should be able to push, pull, and twist him around at will from here to deliver knee strikes at all angles.

One of the biggest faults I've noticed at many Muay Thai events (on the East Coast, anyway) is that people don't appear to understand the clinch. There is a lot of "passive" clinchwork. Even when someone takes the inside control position of the head and neck, they don't really exert CONTROL of their opponent. If you have the inside position on your opponents head/neck, you need to PULL their head down and LOCK them in place! You should not allow them to be able to stand back up, and you should also be firing in knees rapidly to CRUSH THEM!

Also, you mention blocking with your forearms. BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD!!! Please refer to what I posted before, when I started off on a tangent without answering your actual question (oops, again). If worse comes to worse, you should hook your palms in the crooks of your opponents elbows (which will make it harder for him to have complete control of you) and bring your elbows together in front of your face to spike down on his knees as he attacks.

Khun Kao

[darrianation]

i'm not sure what you mean.What kind of clich are you doing. Are you wearing boxing gloves? If you cant get good position then you should break off(carfully). If you are in a clinch and your opponents are throwing and landing knees you wont be in the ring much longer.
To keep him from clinching you push his lead arm away while at the same time push his opposite shoulder. Push hard.Use the palms of your hands. alway counter after the push. IE: inside low kick, right cross, etc. Or fight like hell for control (swim technique).If this doesnt work do a duck under (dangerous not for newbies). Place your hand (palm) uner his arm just above the elbow push up, duck your head under. Be carefull,be forcefull, be fast. And watch out for that knee.
If he has contol of you get your hips as close to his as possible. He should not be able to knee you. Also wrap your leg around his and use it to staighten him up ,force him back or turn him (trip).
use your heels to heel his legs, etc.
What ever you do dont hold on to him and let him knee you! I hope this helps. what about you instuctors? where are they?

[Hulk]

Block knee with your knee.

But, going back to the original question. If you have the inside head/neck control position, you should not have to worry about what your opponent is doing. In this position, you *should* have your opponent bent over with his head trapped to your chest. You should be able to push, pull, and twist him around at will from here to deliver knee strikes at all angles.

if you are the one with no control, lets say he stirkes you with his left knee.... what you do is lift your right knee and block it, then quickly slip your heel under his legs around to the back of his right and twist him clockwise, pull your heel back too. he'll be off balance and chances are he'll fall to the ground. you might be falling with him, but if you do it right, you'll land on him . You can make use of your elbows when falling.

In additional to what darrianation said, about getting your hips as close to his, you can also use your chin. Just hug him tightly as if you miss him so much. While in that position, poke your chin on his chest or any soft part of his body and press against it, hold there till the referee comes. It'll hurt, cos the chin is "sharp".

Thats all from me for now.... its 4am here Good Night.

[Khun Kao]

Hulk...

If I'm reading your description correctly, that is illegal in competition. Hooking sweeps are no-no's in the ring. But, if you're cross training for MMA or self defense, that move can put someone down in a real hurry if you catch them right!

Khun Kao

[retired]

if your in control (your gloves are on the top/back of his head) any time he goes to knee you pull his head toward his attack eg:
if he goes to knee you with side knees then yank him to one side or turn him thus losing his balance and disabling the efectivity of his knee, if he goes to do a lunging knee you will feel his head drop to assist his attacking leg at this moment yank him to the side & you dont have to worry about blocking.
you can sometimes turn your hip towards him and lift your leg with the foot still against your bum and lean it in against his leading leg although you need to watch him carefully cause you'll be on one leg.
if your in control try pulling his face to the floor at which moment you stretch the attacking leg backwards as far as you can reach then drive it forwards into his rib cage, not enough people use this knee & continue with side knee's which aren't that effective in short fights.

[Khun Kao]

retired...

I've trained to pull the head towards the attacking leg, but also away from it too. I actually prefer to pull the head away from the attacking leg because its much easier to dump your opponent to the canvas that way.

For instance, your opponent attempts a right knee strike, you pull his head to your right, but twist to your right also (clockwise). This will still take all the 'juice' off of his knee strike, but can also easily put him down.

If it doesn't put him down, you can either throw a right straight knee up into his torso, or a left curving knee into his now-exposed ribs.

Khun Kao

[Tom Yum]

Man, I would enjoy training with you guys! You guys have a lot of good information and experience. I've been trying to re-org myself due to a bad economy (not to mention home of the Enron). I've been doing MT/western boxing for over a year and I find there is allways something new to learn about the art and about myself. Thanks for keeping it fresh.

[retired]

khun kao

oops i forgot about the step & twist...must have had me mind elsewhere, it's easier to show than to explain (dam these forums).

[Hulk]

Originally posted by Khun Kao
Hulk...

If I'm reading your description correctly, that is illegal in competition. Hooking sweeps are no-no's in the ring. But, if you're cross training for MMA or self defense, that move can put someone down in a real hurry if you catch them right!

Khun Kao

Are the moves illegal in all promotions or some?

Anyway, I just absorb what I learned and learn. When I get into compeition I'll simply reject the illegal moves.

Tom-Yum I'd spar with you any day I am sure I can learn something new from you too!

[dave_UK_MT]

In addition to the already good advice.

If your the one NOT in control another way out is to basically 'bear hug' your opponent and bring his body as close to yours as possible. You can then hold on till the ref breaks or perform a throw.

Trouble with clinching is, if your fighting/sparring with someone a lot stronger than you then your basically fukced!!!!!