shin blocks

[majapahit]

Can anybody explain why your toes have to pint up when you do a shin block ? The only difference I am feeling is that the muscles aound the tibia are tensed . Are there other reasons ?

[swan104]

I'm not a Muay Thai expert, but in my JKD class, we were taught to keep the toes up in order to tense the muscles around our shin. Since we do not condition our shins like Thai boxers, we must know out limitations. Keep in the toes up in a shin block will add extra padding around the shin (which I try to do because I have weak shins and it bloody hurts when bone hits bone)!!

[kengar]

I'd like to add a question here.

Why do you point you toes downward during a knee strike?


Ken

[ryanhall]

1) Speed
2) It can add to the power by letting you lean back as you deliver the knee
3) If it is a self-defense situation, you won't catch your foot on a chair or some debris on the floor.

[work765]

we point our toes down in our class, i guess its a Holland thing maybe. But the reason we point down is to avoid less foot injury. If you point the foot downward your not really exposing your toes to shins. There are basically two schools of thought, so just do what your trainner tells you to do. But after checking a lot you really kind of lose sense of anything down there anyways. Except when you get a nice knee to the shin,, awww.. blisss. My shins and one foot is jacked from yesterdays class.

[kengar]

Thanks guys. I do not train in Muay Thai, though I'd say my training on my personal time is similar. I've always like to practice knees and I started not too long ago with the toes down. With both of your answers I have a better visual of why.

[Khun Kao]

I've always been taught to point my toes whether blocking or kneeing. I have never been given a definative reason "why" for either. But I agree that it does seem to be more practical for preventing injuries, and helping you maintain the correct "posture" during blocks and knees.

Khun Kao

[terry]

I never really figured this one out either. I've heard the following explanations:

- Foot pointed, toes up: Bad because a good guy will attack you by kicking you in the toes, breaking them.

- Foot pointed down: Bad because a good guy will attack you by kicking you in the tarsals or toes, which will either break them or knock you off balance.

I dunno. I'm kinda scratching my head about this one. Either way, the clack of the shins feels pretty much the same to me. Maybe Chalambok has a better explanation...

Terry

[Ice]

The lesser of two evils...

As it was explained to me, toes pointed up/foot parallel to the ground sacrifices your toes for your ankle if the foot is hit - whether intentionally or not. Conversely, either or both could be broken with the toes pointed down, so the rationale for toes up is to remain standing on two feet able to bear the load of your body weight - which I know from personal experience is possible with a broken toe.

An additional thought about this is whether the shin block is intended to be defensive or offensive - as it can be either. To borrow from another Art, in Aikido we use relaxed muscle tension - by way of hand/arm position - to create a 'strong' arm used to redirect a blow. Stick your arm out with the fingers of your hand spread slightly in a relaxed vertical position. Next, as if you were drinking from a cup, point your thumb at your face. In doing this you will find an optimal relaxed tension - this is what I'm referring to.

If you apply this principle of relaxed muscle tension to your legs you will find that toes up/foot parallel uses the same dynamic tension, which suggests to me that it is defensive in nature - it isn't used for striking for obvious reasons. Conversely, toes down does not use the dynamic tension I've described, which suggests to me that it is offensive in nature - that is it's strength.

So in summary, toes up/foot parallel is strongest defensively and when the lower leg is being withdrawn (when the angle of the upper and lower leg is less than 90 degrees) --AND-- toes down is strongest offensively when the lower leg is being extended (greater than 90 degrees).

Just some of my thoughts,

~W2

[Ice]

One exception courtesy of Chalambok...

In an old post by Chalambok on a few on Ajarn Chai's '5 guaranteed techniques' a technique is described which utilises a cross shin block, which could be a defensive lower leg position spun offensively into your opponents round kick.

Ahh, the possibilities...

~W2

PS Chalambok, please check your private messages!!! Thanks.

[silver]

hey ice where can i find that post on ajarn chai techniques

[Ice]

Without further ado...

Here you go...

[retired]

Everybody's getting a little confused here so i shall explain a few things from the thai point of view

Pointing the toes up? (foot paralell to floor) will only ever work if the leg kick is coming at 90' to floor straight across (possibly blocking mid-section or head if flexible) seen sometimes in UFC.
When the kick is coming at any other angle (usually 45' downward) then the knee is brought up & the foot on same leg moves toward the standing foot (forming a triangle) & the toes point to the floor, why? because the kick is so powerfull if you clash square on (like a cross) something will eventually give in & is better for kick to slide down the shin taking out some of the impact.
From this position you can attack his kick with your block, how?
When your in the full block position & the kick is just about to hit your shin you lean back and force your knee/shin downwards towards his attack hitting his lower leg or instep with the top of your shin (just below knee) & if caught correct will do one of 4 things:
1. blocks kick (bit obvious i know)
2. give the guy a painfull shin)
3. break lower shin/ankle
4. break instep/toe
So lets see what we got -
The thicker part of your shin will be harder than the thinner part of his shin (common sense i know)
The toes downward are tucked away from the kick & better protected because you aim your shin at his leg not vice versa.
We can attack with a block instead of just taking the kick.

Hope this brings light to the subject & i didn't upset anyone.

[darrianation]

Retired really knows his stuff.

I just wanted to add one thing that really doesn’t have to do with the question. When blocking with the shin you can set up another strike with it. Say your opponent throws a back leg round kick. You block with your left shin. You push his leg back by stepping down slightly forward and to the left as his kick hits. Setting up a back leg round kick of your own to his support leg. If done right you can put him on the canvas with this, or at least cause to limp through the next round.

As far as foot up or down I was taught both ways by deferent coaches.

[Ice]

Ahem...

Hello Retired,

Thanks for reiterating what I said in a fashion that will facilitate comprehension by most here. If you carefully reread what I wrote you will find that this is the case...

...Just to be clear, while most of my experience is in Aikido, I've been studying Muay Thai, Kali, Jun Fan, and JKD for 6 months now (they're all taught at the Alaskan Martial Arts Academy). We have the privilege of Ajarn Chai's rather personal instruction here (once a year), which is fantastic of course.

Cheers,

~W2