Challenge!

[Tom Yum]

Have any of you guys fought in a challenge match or challenge another stylist? I'll start with myself. I don't mean sparring with another stylist; I mean someone walking into your school/you walking into theirs and presenting the gauntlet.

I was challenged by an associate of mine who shares a similar non-ma hobby. He was a 2nd dan in an okinawan karate style. Basically he told me that ok was the best ma and that he could take out anyone any style. I was scared, because at the time I had only 6-7 months of thaiboxing under my belt, 4 school fights and no ring experience. However, in my previous style/ training I has sparred in semi-contact against karate, kung-fu and tkd.

So I said "Allright. Lets meet and go at it a few rounds"

I wanted to get him into the gym and have my coach watch, but he wanted to meet at his place. So I said fine. It hardly lasted 2 rounds. He tried to backfist/elbow off the same hand and then through a stiff reverse punch. The elbow bounced off my "high" thai guard and I returned the favor with a rear downward elbow.

He tried to palm block it, but my weight sent his palm smaking into his eye. The reverse punch was quick, but stiff. I slipped it and double jabbed which backed him up. He tried a rear legged back-snap kick and I parried and threw left-right body hooks. He was stunned and his eye was watering alot, so I backed off.

We went for the 2nd round. I didn't do alot of offense, I danced around him and he started to suck air. before we agreed to stop I jabbed, which he blocked well but followed up with a rear leg rondhouse which he did not block. The kick rocked him.

My comments: He used traditional karate techniques not good for the ring and was not in best shape (reverse punch was stiff!) He lacked foot work as he could have cut me off in rd 2 and he was not accustomed to being kicked at the thigh. It wasn't full contact, but there was some intent.

His comments: my footwork was fast and that he wasn't in top shape. He said that he'd never seen a downward elbow and tried to defend it.

I didn't take the challenge to prove anything. Just wanted to see how I would do. To be honest I was a little scared of the guy.

[terry]

My jujutsu instructor said that a friend of his defended a challenge in his own school and beat the tar out of a guy. The guy came back and sued and won a settlement for $50,000 plus legal fees.

Terry

[Tom Yum]

That brings a good question to mind: Can you offer the challenger a waiver/contract so that the challenger can't sue?

One of the guys in my class who was pretty good (and high on himself) challenged my MT coach. The guy was good. I think he trained for a few years overseas. He could throw mean kicks; his boxing was so-so. Anywho, he called out my instructor and one day they went at it after a class. He did well, but my instructor walked through his kicks and landed a lot of unanswered punches; the guy was backed into the wall and another guy in class jumped in to peel the guy off the wall and help him walk to the other side of the room. Such rare chances to see your instructor in action!

The entire match lasted about 2 minutes. All I could say was "Damn!"

[terry]

Originally posted by Tom Yum That brings a good question to mind: Can you offer the challenger a waiver/contract so that the challenger can't sue?

I'm no attorney, but when I did ask my attorney he said it can go either way depending on the juristiction and the judge. One side of that argument says: You cannot make contractual stipulations that contradict Common Law. (English Common Law is the basis for much of our contract law.) The other side of that argument says: He entered into this knowing that 1) it is an extreme sport and that it is inherently dangerous and 2) his participation is entirely at his own risk. So, from what I hear it's a crap shoot.

But the chances are that if criminal charges are successfully brought against you that your liability insurance policy won't cover you. (Any illegal act is uncovered.) Of course, it is in a follow-on civil proceeding that you run the possibility of loosing your house.

Terry

[Tom Yum]

So I guess the CYA method would be to enter a professional fighting league that would sponsor the match with yourself and the challenger.

[darrianation]

Cool!

If I was in a gym or Dojo and someone just walked in off the street and wanted to fight I would not fight him. Mostly legal reasons, plus I think showing an example of constraint would be very good lesson for my students.

I’ve seen it happen before when I was in Karate class (1979 or 1980) a couple of yahoos came in and challenged our instructor. He refused to fight them. I was very impressed how he handled it he was very calm and professional. He asked them to leave or he would call the police. They got pretty belligerent and a couple of senior students escorted them out. They kicked their asses. I didn’t get to see this because the rest of us were told to stay seated in the dojo. Boy would I have liked to have seen that.

I would never go to someone else’s Dojo and challenge the instructor for no other reason than that’s very disrespectful.

I do have a nephew who is a BB in TKD. He is active in tournaments. He challenges me every time I see him. He has never beaten me but he still tries.

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine had a friend who was visiting from somewhere in Utah who had a supposed BB in kenpo (American). One night we were hang’n at my friend’s house drinking some beers. We got talking about martial arts and he went on and on how superior kenpo is. I talked about my MT training and Karate training and the fact I studied Chinese Kenpo for two years. Anyway he knows virtually nothing about MT. He asked me to show him some stuff and I did. Then he went on saying in Kenpo he would do this to counter that. We went round and round for a while. I never bad mouthed kenpo but he bad mouthed every thing I said. Well finally he challenges me. I said I fight him if we go full contact (I suck at light controlled contact that you can only hit the body, I don’t give a shit about points). That takes away my best weapons. He eagerly agreed. I went home got my boxing gloves, and a pair for him too (16oz). I also knew boxing gloves would take some of his weapons away he, he.

He is taller than me but I am bigger. I’m 5’11’’ and 210; He is about 6’1’’ and 180. The match begun and damn home boy was good. He blocked everything I sent his way. The only thing I was able to land was those shin kicks to his legs, and o’ did I land them. Over and over again. I also got the clinch on him twice. We had an agreement no knees so I didn’t go for the clinch more than that. I just did it when he came in close with flurries. After about 6-7 leg kicks he starts dropping his guard and I was able to land some hooks mostly my left hook. He’d come in with his head forward and down. I even caught him with an uppercut. I also kicked his leg out from under him several times while he was trying to kick me.

We didn’t go full speed but we went ¾ speed .Every now and then the punches were at full speed. He finally had enough shin kicks and had to stop. If this would have been a real fight I would have done nothing differently except kicked harder. He was a very good defensive fighter but had no offense. He also had no lateral movement that helped me tremendously. When he did try to drive (which wasn’t often) I would Perry counter or throw a lead left hook. I also would side step his attacks. I’m usually an offensive fighter My motto is go deep and go often But this night I was feeling a little off maybe it was the five beers I had ( don’t laugh maybe if everyone would learn to fight drunk then there would be no problem with drunken fighting, lol). I held back and took my time.

Anyway it was fun. He was about 10 years younger than me (he’s 27) (damn I’m old huh?) and I took him to school. He walked with a limp the rest of the night. Every time he started talking shit I’d just point over to the boxing gloves.

[King Tiger]

I've only been in one style vs. style fight. It was my MT against a friend of mine who did TKD. We had been arguing about which style was better for street fighting. He'd taken TKD for about 6 years, and I've taken MT for about 4 months, but study at a school that emphasizes street combat.

It was over in about 20 seconds. He came at me with a side kick, which moved me back, but didn't he didn't connect with it. I stepped in with a double jab, a straight to the body, and a lead leg kick to the thigh, which sent him down.

He doesn't talk about martial arts with me anymore.

[eXcessiveForce]

In some states, including missouri where my school is there is a statute that explicitly states that competitors in a sporting event do not have the right to sue for injuries sustained in the conduct of that sport so long as it falls under the rules of that sport.

So if you were to sanction a fight with rules and you abide by them, no liability, But if you were to break the rules and injure your opponent then you could be held liable.

Liability and criminality are two totally different subjects.

in some states if you are in a bar and you ask someone to step out side and they do then they have agreed to a fight which removes much of the possibility of criminal charges such as assault not disorderly conduct however. Liability still applies though.

[ceasarx]

I was training in a hapkido school and pared up by the instructor of the school with a thai boxer. he issued the challenge of everything goes and away we went. The match lasted about five minutes and I finally beat him with an uppercut to the groin after he threw a side kick. The guy was a tank and shrugged off everything until then.
I have also heard of dojo rushes happening but have never witnessed one. I know Sensei Phil Theadoreo was rushed and he got sued for lots of money but again I didnt see the fight so I cant say what happened

[Aaska]

Between 1999 & 2000, my big neighbour, Dave, was telling people that he was a BJJ & JKD practioner and that how quickly he could kick my ass.

When this news finally reached my ears, I went to his place and asked him for a sparring which would allow me not only punching & kicking but also knees & elbow strikes.

He said no and we have never got to sparr.

John, who was not only my friend but also a BJJ & JKD practioner, came to me later and said that Dave makes a bad name for BJJ.

Two years ago, I sparred with a boxer who was bigger and heavier than I was. Neither kicking nor elbow strikes were allowed during this fight and I got my ass kicked real bad....

Ever since then, I've been working heavily on my boxing skills.

[Great Sage]

One of my sister's ex-boyfriend was a Wing Tsun stylists and heard that I was also a Martial Artist... They Guy kept insisting that Wing Tsun was the ultimate MA and that even with my vast repetoire, I was no match. Therefore, we agreed on a sparring match. At first, he was reluctant to go NHB, but I convinced him that it was the true test of skill, so he agreed.

It was a sloppy fight to say the least. The Guy kept trying to get close and do his Wing Tsun stuff and I kept him at bay with leg kicks and jabs. We were wearing sparring gloves and I could feel his head jerk back each time I landed a jab. The fight ended when HE got inside my round kick and right into my clinch, then I spun him unto the ground. I was "high and tight" and he submitted right away.

We went to round 2 after that, and it was pretty much a draw since HE kept running away from me.

[eXcessiveForce]

I've had a few challenges but they have all been pretty uneventful.


When I was younger probably 14 my instructor and I ended up going at it. He was about 280 lbs and i was about 130lbs. we started off in a kind of point sparring with the rest of the students keeping score. I scored some points quickly and my instructor got upset and hit me with a kick that picked me up off the ground and shot me about 6 feet and into a concrete wall. He then walked over and smacked me quickly thinking I guess that i was hurt. I droped down and threw a high power side kick that knocked him off his feet several feet away. students are calling out that I scored more points. When he got up, he eyes narrowed and I could see he was ready to blast me and he charged and tried to hit me with a run jump front kick (not much of a run since we were pretty close to eachother) I backed straight up and as he kicked I brought my knee up under his foot which flipped him and he crashed down on his back and knocked the wind out of himself. I quickly hit him a few times after he got up and it was over with the students declaring me the winner by points. I was just happy I got through it without getting mangled. Thankfully it was only supposed to be point sparring. Because although I could blast him with kicks there would have been no way I could have been able to handle him at close range.




I left the school soon after that, so he beat the hell out of my friend who had only been in a year about two weeks later.

[chris davis 200]

I have had challenges with quite a few styles.

Most of the guys that want to challenge you are up there ass and quite in experienced in martial arts - they get thier black belts and think they are masters!

anyways.

I think that it is definatley posible to respectfully ask a MA teacher to participate in challenge match.

This was very much common place in both China and japan and i believe it does still occure to an extent.

This would be achieved with no nastiness or arrogence but just politness and a calm reasoning.

If you go to an authentic MA school and politley ask a teacher to spar or whatever they have the choice to accept or decline the offer.

there is no pressure.

Cheers
chris

[Guest]

While policing I've had a few heroes brag about their extensive martial arts experience. One even stood in the Crane stance like the Karate Kid, and I knocked the shit out of him with one punch.

Ahhhhh So!

[JP Prideaux]

We've had quite a lot of other stylists visit our MT gym to train for a night. Unfortunately they bring a lot of attitude with them. My coach hates this.

I was partnered with this guy from an Ashihara karate school (who came to MT training in this red-black Gi) and we went at it. His defence was tight but there was nothing much he could do against me. Was touch-touch sparring but he was rather hopeless... he never stuck around long enough to do some HARD sparring with me

Then there was a guy that did (i shi t you not) TAE-BO who came do our gym with some similar attitude.

One medium strengthed low-kick to his leg changed his frame of mind very quickly.