Muay Thai/Boxing Gyms, East Bay (CA)

[little bullie]

Little Bullie

You must have never taken a class with Ercivan if you think he doesn't teach knees and elbows, maybe he doesn't in a group format but in private training (when he trains his fighters) he does. But it also depends on what rules his fighter will be fighting under. In any case when I used to train with Cheetah the only knee techniques I learned were skip knees against the wall or skip knees against a bag or pad. But the same thing happened when I took some privates with Cheetah he explained knees and elbows in detail. So I guess it depends on the class you are taking. I always felt both instructors had a lot to offer. The traditional aspect from Cheetah just came mainly from the fact that he would teach you the names of the techniques in Thai and the ceremonial part before or after training. Ercivan starts end ends his classes the way they do in Japan or Europe (oshu etc) If you want to be able to say that you actually trained with a Thai Kru you should train with Cheetah otherwise it doesn't matter. Whatever gets the job done in the ring...it sounds like you are from the Cheetah camp I still train with Ercivan and haven't lost a Muay Thai fight yet!

i don't mean any disrespect since ercivan is actually a friend of mine and cheetah is like a brother to me. i am entitled to my opinion and after nearly 7 years of training i feel like i may have some valid information.

[Twins]

Muay Thai Eastbay

No worries, I would never take it the wrong way it is just that I have been around the circuit from pretty much the beginning. I am 35 and I love Martial Arts. Just like most Muay Thai fighters in the US I also started with Karate. After Van Damme (still the best fighter ever) came out with Kick boxer in I believe 1988 I was determined to learn this art. In 1989 I found a place in Palo Alto run by Nirmalia Bowmick. He claimed he had about 100 fights so most people were very impressed. The thing was he could always back up his techniques with his talk, so he created a small following for a while. This is where I met Ercivan, Woody and Andy and Terry. (the fellows mentioned earlier.) Andy was a nice guy but never really studied Muay Thai in his native Thailand, Woody later opened his own gym. Terry had a wealth of knowledge he claimed, apparently he had been training in Muay Thai since 1979 perhaps in Thailand. Never saw him fight or produce fighters. Ercivan did have a background in Muay Thai cause he had just moved from Holland where Muay Thai was already very big. Even at that time he was taking out people during training. I stood up against him but had no chance cause nobody had ever kicked me in the legs! He actually was the first guy who fought for this gym: in Bakersfield against a pro boxer turned kickboxer. I know all this because I was there! Ercivan was never told by his trainer Nirmalia that the rules were not Muay Thai plus on top of that he had to make weight an hour before the fight (about 15 pounds) Ercivan lost this fight I believe in 1991.

Muay Thai was at this point still very new to the US and the area. But slowly it started growing, a Mike Espinoza started a gym in Daly city together with an organizition called the IFCA, he would hold events calling the fights Muay Thai but I think the Athletic Commission wouldn't allow knees. So they called it International rules or (European style kickboxing) This was the wrong term because in Europe they always fought Muay Thai with knees and elbows or they did Savate. (French Kickboxing)

I was at the fairgrounds San Mateo where Ercivan had his fighter fight a fellow from the Muay Thai academy from Palo Alto (a student of Nirmalia!) Ercivan's fighter knocked out his opponent in 2 minutes. At that same card Alex Gong fought, George Tsuitsui and Jean Claude Leuyer. Alex was at that time trained by Paul Mateo. Fairtex Arizona handled Jean Claude. Mike Quijano also fought on this card and given that the promoters switched fighters on him he did very well. You could see he had lots of ring experience eventhough he lost.

I would see Cheetah at times during events and I knew he was training people in Oakland at King's and the YMCA. He is without any doubt one of the better Muay Thai trainers but I always felt training with him that he was more interested in my credit card than my training. I can't blame him that is what he does for a living. Please don't take any offense I am just telling you how it is. In the mid nineties Fairtex instructors Alex and Gan Jou started teaching out of a nightclub in SF. A few months later they opened the gym on Clementina. And I started training there for a while. I noticed how the true legends like Bunkerd were always so humble and here we Westerners thaught we were martial arts gods because we took some Muay Thai certification classes with some self proclaimed Thai Master or we were the proud owners of a black belt.

I met Ercivan again at Fairtex, Ercivan now also owned his own gym in Oakland but trained at Fairtex because he needed good sparring partners. I would see him duking it out with Alex, Jean Claude, Bunkerd or George.

The first Strike Force was held promoted by Scott Cocker and Havier Mendez-Havier Mendez was now a world champion after fighting 2x here in the USA! (Havier is a good friend who I also met back in the 80's at the Palo Alto gym) Slowly Muay Thai started growing. Fairtex obviously did a lot to promote this sport. A corporation run by a smart kid from Boston (Alex) who once was selling Fairtex equipment for the factory in Thailand here in the Bay Area. Alex was all business and at times he would have conflict with his partners/employees but this is normal in every business. His goal was to promote Fairtex equipment sales, Alex, and Muay Thai.

After the dot com bust I moved back to the East Bay. It was easier for me to train at Amsterdam Gym at that time it was called (Amsterdam kickboxing) this is probably why some people think they didn't practice Muay Thai. Ercivan was not teaching very often he had Cheetah run the classes together with Rakarma and Alex. Ercivan owns a few more businesses so he would pull up in his Mercedes say hi and leave. I asked him why he kind of left the gym to run by Cheetah and he claimed he was to bussy. Later I found out he was suffering from cancer and was in a lot of pain when he worked out. He opened a second gym in Alameda thinking he would leave this school to his friends Alex and Ra, he was convinced he wasn't going to make it... after surgery and medication he came back stronger and everything turned around! In the mean time Cheetah kind of took over the Oakland gym and Ercivan was working the Alameda gym. Ercivan could not agree with the new lease terms for the Oakland gym and I guess Cheetah could so he stayed in Oakland.

So I hope you liked this info Little Bullie and ofcourse you have the right to your opinion but I just want to make sure that everyone has the facts right!
There is way too many people nowadays that claim they are some Kru, Ajarn or Master without having done much for the sport or have been in the ring, they will never know what their fighters go through ( but remember it is not a must to be a ring fighter in order to be a good trainer and vice versa)

You can always go to www.twinsgear.com and order the Contenders video you will see some of Ercivan's fights and his fighters. You will also see some of Cheetah's!)

Ercivan doesn't pay me to say all this he has just done a lot for me so I always throw in a few good words.

[verc]

Twins,

It seems like you have a lot of info about muay thai and boxing in the silicon valley area, can you (or anyone else) please contact me about boxing and muay thai gyms near palo alto? Like some others, I've been doing TKD for a good decade and want to try something new.

my email is : ambertch@stanford.edu

Thanks!
Ambert

[Twins]

Gyms in your area

Ambert

I am not so sure if I would refer you to anyone but Ercivan at Amsterdam Gym, Kru Cheetah, some of the Fairtex trainers and Bunkerds gym. It is really worth traveling to train with these guys.It all depends on which trainer you feel most comfortable with. Bunkerd is very polite and humble, Cheetah will give you a great workout but will want to make sure you know he is the boss and pay him top dollar, the others will make you feel like you are training in Thailand and Ercivan doesn't care who you are he will knock you out if he doesn't like you and give you free gloves and let you train for free if he does. I am just kidding! Just stick with trainers who have been in the ring or have experience training fighters, personality also goes a long way. Personally I like Ercivan and I love Bunkerd (I would go through fire for him!)
Good luck!

[verc]

Ambert

I am not so sure if I would refer you to anyone but Ercivan at Amsterdam Gym, Kru Cheetah, some of the Fairtex trainers and Bunkerds gym. It is really worth traveling to train with these guys.It all depends on which trainer you feel most comfortable with. Bunkerd is very polite and humble, Cheetah will give you a great workout but will want to make sure you know he is the boss and pay him top dollar, the others will make you feel like you are training in Thailand and Ercivan doesn't care who you are he will knock you out if he doesn't like you and give you free gloves and let you train for free if he does. I am just kidding! Just stick with trainers who have been in the ring or have experience training fighters, personality also goes a long way. Personally I like Ercivan and I love Bunkerd (I would go through fire for him!)
Good luck!

thanks a lot for the info, right now I'm looking into Fairtex since it's still on the west side of the bay. You said you would only recommend some of the trainers there? (I have no boxing experience, but I am hoping that extensive MA and athletic experience will allow me to at least spar at the end of the summer) Can you give me the locations and contact info for Cheetah and Bunkerd? A guy who is an expert at what they do but can retain the utmost of humility even in the face of blashpemy is really my kind of person.

[little bullie]

yah twins i actually didn't need a lesson. i know all them quite well and have a few fights under my belt (18). i have plenty of facts and have trained with Ganyao at Fairtex for my entire Muay Thai career.


I think all of the local camps have something to offer some better than others but of course that's subjective. You seem to discount us all over Ercivan. I stand by my original statements and really recommend that anyone who is looking for a gym honestly just go try a class at all the local gyms. They all offer a free trial class or for a nominal fee.

It's more than just about just thinking your trainer is good at least for me it is I tried a few places before I settled on Fairtex and just found that for me personally it's what i was looking for.

[Twins]

Lesson

And that is exactly my point, every trainer has something great to offer but this whole discussion started with someone saying that Ercivan doesn't teach Muay Thai and better yet that the gyms in Oakland and Alameda were owned by Cheetah well let me tell you I am one of the investors in Ercivan's companies and I guarantee you that yes he does teach Muay Thai and he did own those gyms with my companies backing and Cheetah was on our payroll if that matters to you. As far as your fights that is great but it doesn't matter how many fights you have I have had 35 fights and about 80 streetfights (I got stabbed, shot and knocked out probably more than the above number ) when I was a bouncer in college so I am not sure how that relates to my opinion about the Bay Area Muay Thai scene. Yes I favor Ercivan because he is laid back about a lot of things and he is not so into the politics about all this, but I clearly refer upcoming fighters to Cheetah or Bunkerd. As a matter of fact I just bought 20 private classes with Bunkerd at his new gym in S.F!

Talk to you later

[little bullie]

And that is exactly my point, every trainer has something great to offer but this whole discussion started with someone saying that Ercivan doesn't teach Muay Thai and better yet that the gyms in Oakland and Alameda were owned by Cheetah well let me tell you I am one of the investors in Ercivan's companies and I guarantee you that yes he does teach Muay Thai and he did own those gyms with my companies backing and Cheetah was on our payroll if that matters to you. As far as your fights that is great but it doesn't matter how many fights you have I have had 35 fights and about 80 streetfights (I got stabbed, shot and knocked out probably more than the above number ) when I was a bouncer in college so I am not sure how that relates to my opinion about the Bay Area Muay Thai scene. Yes I favor Ercivan because he is laid back about a lot of things and he is not so into the politics about all this, but I clearly refer upcoming fighters to Cheetah or Bunkerd. As a matter of fact I just bought 20 private classes with Bunkerd at his new gym in S.F!

Talk to you later

my point is not really to get into a flame war with you. in my opinion it won't serve either of us well...nor the person who originally was asking for help.
basically i just felt like you were completely discounting my opinion and i didn't appreciate that. who cares how many fights are under either of our respective belts...just merely using it as a frame of reference, meaning i'm not a brand new kid with no experience. either way i'm done since i don't want a flame war as i said. good luck to the poster looking for a place to train.

[billyblanks]

Gyms in East Bay

Based on what I have been reading on this forum I decided to take a few classes with Ercivan and Cheetah. I trained MMA and Muay Thai in San Jose at AKA so I am not a novice, have been doing this for about 10 years. First took a class at Cheetah's gym their advanced class: good structure, lots of repetitive bag and pad work. This night there was no sparring but was told that fighters do often. From 1-10 I would rate his class a 7. After class Cheetah came over and made sure I signed up (selling me on a year contract)
Told him I had to think about it.

Next was Ercivan at Amsterdamgym. Lots of strategies, fight drills and lots of full contact sparring. I guess at the beginning of class I shouldn't have mentioned my level of expertise: Now Sensei Ercivan had to test me himself... He knocked me down in the first few seconds! After class he thanked me with that silly smile he has and said that I could join if I wanted. No sales pressure. I would rate his skills and class a 9 but will not join his competive program (unless it is the cardio class) simply because these guys are a little to excited about knocking eachother out! I can see why Fairtex fighters don't really want to fight Amsterdam Gym guys.