Top 15 Martial Artists

[JP Prideaux]

Was searching around for various stuff and I came by this list. Of course its just one person's opinion... curious how you other guys feel about it. I myself have a few gripes with it (despite not knowing a thing about one or two of the mentioned martial artists)

So... what do you guys think of this list? Benny shouldnt be number 1. No damn way! Still dont understand how Dennis Alexio got onto this list. . . ah well. Comments.



1) Benny "The Jet" Urquidez: Mother was a pro-wrestler. Father was a pro-boxer. Has a professional record of over 200 wins with no defeats. 63-0 with 57 KO's in World title fights. 6-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. Has a black belt in 9 different styles of martial arts.

2) Masahiko Kimura: Undefeated All-Japan open-weight Judo champion for 13 years. Holds a TKO victory over Helio Gracie. The greatest Japanese competition fighter ever.

3) Helio Gracie: Was Brazilian champion for 20 years. Has only two defeats. One to Kimura when Helio refused to tap-out, and the corner threw in the towel. One to a former student in a real grudge Vale Tudo
rules match that lasted over 3 hours. At the finish of the fight, both men sat up on their knees exhausted. The former student then stood up and kicked Helio in the head knocking him out.

4) "The Iceman" Jean-Yves Theriault: Considered to be the greatest full contact kickboxer ever. 69-6 (with 1 draw with Don Wilson) with 61 KO's. 23-time World kickboxing champion.

5) Rickson Gracie: Some consider him to be the best MMA fighter in the World at this time. Has an impressive, almost "mythical" record with some 400 fights without ever being defeated - representing his family's legendary martial art.

6) Rob Kaman: Is a "living legend" in kickboxing. Had 98 wins with 78 KO's fighting the best from around the World during his career. Has a TKO victory over Theriault.

7) Carlson Gracie Sr.: Legend of the Gracie family. At age 17, defended the family's honor by beating the former Gracie student who beat Helio.

8) Don "The Dragon" Wilson: He was the first Kung Fu practitioner to become a World kickboxing champion. 71-5 (2 draws) with 47 KO's. 11-time World kickboxing champion. Has fought Theriault to a draw. Has wins over both Maurice Smith and Dennis Alexio.

9) Bill "Superfoot" Wallace: Retired as an undefeated World kickboxing champion. It is said that his leg kick has been clocked over 60 miles per hour.

10) Ralph "The Pitbull" Gracie: One of the lesser known Gracies. Has a legitimate 81-0 record.

11) Dennis "Kahake" Alexio: Is still the reigning IKF World heavyweight kickboxing champion. 70-2 with 65 KO's.

12) Sifu Vizzio: 5-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. 47-1 with 35 KO's. 17 World title defenses. 55-0 with 54 KO's in real 400lbs-and-under Kung Fu "Death Matches" (similar to the original UFC fights) back in the 70's.

13) Joe Lewis: Retired as the World heavyweight Karate champion. Is called the "Greatest Karate fighter that has ever lived."

14) "Mr. Perfect" Ernesto Hoost: 86-14 with 56 KO's. 3-time World kickboxing champion. 3-time K-1 World champion. (Zach: Isn't he now a 4-time K-1 champion?)

15) Royce Gracie: Started fighting at age 8. Dominated early UFCs. A few losses here late in his career has somewhat took away from his "legend." Could never be referred to as over-rated in any way.

[jules]

no Mas Ohyama?

[JP Prideaux]

Originally posted by jules
no Mas Ohyama?

Exactly.

What about Diesel Noi? Apidej Sit Harun? Peter Aerts? Andy Hug? Francisco Filho? Sak Mongkol?

I seriously have to disagree with with Dennis Alexio being in that list. He's built up his record fighting nobodies. He refuses to enter the K-1 circuit because he knows his precious record will get ruined by the elite of the sport. His bad attitude is also unbecoming of any true martial artist.

Too many Gracies in that list anyway...

[terry]

Well, I'm not sure of the criteria. That list has people with 300+ wins as well as people with 60 wins that were really only champions outside of Thailand. Don Wilson is an example: Kitsandra not only beat him, he snapped his knee in the 5th round.

If you selected for people who have more than 300 wins under their belts you would wind up with MT guys like Apideh, Galaxy, Golden Leg and Bonkerd, each of which faced many more worthy opponents than, well, Alexio.

There seems to be no mention of any boxers on this list. I personally have more respect for boxers than 99.9% of martial artists and would include great fighters such as Mohammed Ali on such a list.

Also, the list doesn't have any people who fought with weapons. I would nominate some of the top Dog Bros, such as Eric Knaus or Tom Keir, to such a list. I'm sure there are a bunch of Pinoys that should be on this list, but I don't know them and can't sort out the contreversey surrounding some of the older guys.

Finally, the list would be different if it discussed people who drove behavioral or training method changes among martial artists. The elder Gracie should certainly be among a list of that kind.

[platinum_angel]

i was going to go to bill wallaces seminar today it was 11:00 to 2:30 and i thought it was at night lol. damn i'm mad now

[WaTEr]

What are your guys opinion on yip man? i thought he was pretty good.

[Cadden]

1.) Wong Shun Leung (one of the greatest, if not the greatest, Hong Kong challenge match figher of all time. He never lost and he fought over 200 no rules fights. Also being Bruce Lees teacher and mentor is one that demands respect)
2.) Yip Man (Taught Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Tseung Tin, Bruce Lee)
3.) Barry Lee (brilliant fighter)
4.) Bruce Lee (his impact on Western martial arts earns him a high place, although he was not as skilled a martial artist as those others in the top five)
5.) Tsui Seung Tin
6.) Mas Oyama (for his sheer dedication and strength)
7.) David Peterson
9.) Jesse Glover

I only have seven favourites. I don't count tournament fighters, UFC and so on.

[chris davis 200]

Well i think that list has a heavy bias but here is mine. (also Biased!)

1) Yin Fu - undefeated master of ba gua, the sole bodyguard of the empress of china (bearing in mind they would normally have 10 or above, sometimes hundreds!) He killed and paralised huge amounts of people in his capacity as bodyguard. One of the greatest martial artists of his time, compassionate yet hugely powerful. also a brilliant teacher.

2) Guo Yun Shen - Hsing I master - imprisoned for killing many people in challange matches - when he imerged from jail - he was stronger and more powerful than when he went in. Took challanges from anywhere and was undefeated.

3) Ueshiba Morehei - Founder of aikido and declared the greatest martial artist in japan during his peak in his 40/50's. Took many challanges and was undefeated.

4) Yang Lu-chan - founder of yang tai chi also undefeated in hundreds of challanges.

5) Helio Gracie - a brilliant fighter with a fantastic record, who opened many peoples eyes.

6) Nahy Khanom Thom - The legendary Muay thai figure.

7) Mas Oyama - one of the greatest and strongest karate ka ever.

8) Bruce lee - For the impact he made on the martial arts.

9) Wang Shu Jin - a intenal arts master who spead the effectiveness of ba gua to the west and japan - undefeated in hundreds of challange matches.

10) Yip Man - a true master of the martial arts and a great teacher.

[jules]

Peter Aerts should be up there. But did he "Dominate" like the other guys have?

[JP Prideaux]

Originally posted by jules
Peter Aerts should be up there. But did he "Dominate" like the other guys have?

True.

I suppose its nearly impossible to create an unbiased list of this sort. Given my muay thai background and ties to the K-1 circuit Id probably guilty of loading the list with its fair share of "Mirko CroCops" and "Jerome LeBanners"... just the same as any Aikidoka , Karateka, Foo-fighter would load the list with any legends of their respective sport.

I suppose ignorance on anyone's part can also influence creating a list like that. For example ive never heard of many of those mentioned martial artist masters... and what Ive read about them is quite impressive - and they sure as hell deserve a mention on such a list FAR MORE than Benny the Jet or Dennis Alexio . . . and most people on that list.

So yeah. Maybe there's a better way to compile such a list? Fair and unbiased? Doubt it.

[fugetsu]

criteria

Criteria for establishing "greatness:"

first- there should be a pre-modern/modern divide.

While there are many famous Central, South, South-East, and East Asian warriors with impressive battle records, establishing the "factualness" of these records may be difficult. Miyamoto Musashi, for example, is more a legend than a real, historical personality, since the actual historical records attesting to his comings and goings are quite poor. Yamaoka Tesshu, on the other hand, was active in Kendo, Shodo, Zen, and political circles, so his accomplishments can be verified using a number of different historical sources, so he is a better candidate for the list, but, his Mutoryu system bascially died with him in the late 1800s, so should he on the list? Maybe.

Post-1900 martial figures, I imagine, have easier paper trials to follow, which means we can distinguish fact from fiction (not always so easy, especially since founders of systems and the like often take on super-human characteristics--Mas Oyama and Morihei Ueshiba come to mind).

second- fight records need not be the only qualification for greatness. Influence should also be past of the package. Guru Dan Inosanto, for example, should be on the list. No other person has done so much to (master then) promote JKD/Jun Fan Gung-fu and a whole array of South-East martial arts. Other similar martial artists who have founded systems or have systematized and promoted various arts should be candidates for the list.

third- we have to decide what is meant by "martial artist," Ali definately should be on the list, a great boxer and an inspirational figure for multiple generations. What about other western fighting arts like fencing?

These are issues that should be considered-
But, setting any standards or critieria will automatically exclude some that should be included, and include some that shouldn't
Needless to say, the above list, while good for naming Kimura and the Gracie lineage, is totally lacking in the Muay Thai/Kickboxing realm. Alexio and Wilson do not deserve the recognition that someone like Fujiwara Toshio, the first non-Thai to win a Thai-stadium championship belt, does.

[chalambok]

Expanding on Fugetsu

Just to further muddy the waters, how could you put someone like Rex Fairbairn (sorry about the spelling) or Floro Villabrille into the context? Need we have historical imperatives? Or people who codified training systems, much as Alexander the Great did for his armies? Or Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan, both of whom devised unbeatable tactics? Or great Native American warriors/prophets/seers like Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse or even Geronimo? The problem seems to me not one of who is the top, but more of how we define martial artist. Dr Hatsumi (of Togakure Ninjutsu fame) once said a martial artist should be a musician, a poet, a cook...or something along those lines. You get my gist here. But I like the thread's possibilities. Just so long as one man has an opinion, another will choose to debate it. Surely during his time, David must have seemed the greatest for defeating the Goliath. Someone new will be here soon perhaps, and open our eyes again to new possibilities. Or not...

[chris davis 200]

I bellieve that it is 100% a personal choice.

The greatest fighters to one person could be the ones that lived in an era where fighting was common place and still stood head and shoulders above the rest.

To another person it could be the greatest tournement fighters.

To another it would be the ones that have done the most to express there art to the public.

ETC ETC

The lists are endless

I think that it would be real good to hear your top 3 with reasons.

[BadgerFu57]

1. Batman from the 1960's show. He had some amazing punches, reminiscent of kindergarten days.
2. Sylvestor Stallone on Rocky for the fact he took blows that would knock down an elephant.
3. Jean Claude Van Damme because of his brilliant "ahehiheaihkiahi" thing he does in Bloodsport for like 10 minutes in the middle of a fight.
4. Steven Segal for his excellent conditioning, what a body!
5. Billy Blanks for putting TKD to good use (helping fat people lose weight).
6-10. The Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles for their revolutionary pizza diet and replacement of "kiai" with "cowabunga.

[chris davis 200]

1. Batman from the 1960's show. He had some amazing punches,

man o man that guy was soooo tough - him and robin - what a team!

LMFAO!!!