Spin kicks useful or useless?

[retired]

Nutz
"I've found that right off the bat, most spinning kicks, or kicks above the waist for that matter, are more or less unsucessful unless the opponent they're being used against is relatively unskilled in comparison to the person executing said technique".

Oh how wrong you are......this clip was from my first round against an area coach who at the time was kicking seven bells out of my legs.

http://www.theapproachingstorm.com/thailand/forumpics/knockout1.wmv

[JP Prideaux]

Originally posted by Nutz
Just as you indicated, you need to consider how far into the match was it before those kicks were effective.

I've found that right off the bat, most spinning kicks, or kicks above the waist for that matter, are more or less unsucessful unless the opponent they're being used against is relatively unskilled in comparison to the person executing said technique.

Thats just my observation, take it or leave it.

just gonna rattle through all the effective spin kicks Ive seen. They by far outnumber the times ive seen the spin punch used effectively.

That Majestarovic heel kick happened in the first or early 3nd round i believe. Ive seen a lot of his fights. He usually throws one or two heel kicks in the 1st round then settles into a more basic style. He's connected quite a few times with his heel kicks.

Kyokushin fighter Michael Thompson had the same tactic. He tagged Ernesto Hoost with a vicious spin kick to the head - in the first round in their 1995 encounter (K-1 Revenge II)

Remy Bonjaski - the one on the receiving of Majestarovics spin kick landed a HUGE spin kick against Jerrel Venetiaan in the 1st round of the K-1 Holland GP last year.

Speaking of Ernesto... before K-1 he knocked someone out cold with a spinning kick to the guys temple.

in the K-2 Grand Prix, Australian Tasis Petridis knocked down Japanese fighter Toshiyuki Atokawa in the first (or early 2nd) with a spinning kick to the head.

Andy Hug knocked out Tsuyoshi Nakasako with a heel kick to the head - 22 secs into the sencond round. Both fighters were still pretty much fresh.

Andy Hug knocked down Hiromi Amada twice in the first round... then finished him off with a spin kick shortly after that.

Francisco Filho KOed Duane van der Merwe in the first round with a spinning back kick to the ribs - 2'22secs into the first round. I might add he was on the offensive and had Filho in serious trouble until he took that kick to the ribs.

Benny the Jet (as much as i dislike his hyped image) has used the spin kick many many times to good effect - even the jumping back kick of his has connected on many fighters.

Stefan Leko KOed Dutch fighter Harry Hooft with a back kick in the 2001 Finals (Super fight) in less than 2 minutes of the first round.

Tomasz Kurkazewski hit Andre Dudko with a spin kick in the first round - sent him against the ropes (K-1 USA 2000). Dudko came back to KO Tomasz later in that round.

Carter Williams knocked down Japanese fighter Yusuke Fujimoto in the 1st or 2nd round with a spin kick to the face.

Japanese fighter Musashi connected with a spin kick against Galube Feitosa in January 2002. Didnt knock him down or anything. But Glaube is a top Kyokushin fighter with some good conditioning. Couldve hurt a lot of other people.

Bob Schrieber KOed a fighter in the first round with a spinning back kick in the early 90's. During the "RINGS" series in Japan.

Just my observations. I could go on with several more but im not in the mood. This thread has lost the plot to some extent.

anyhoo. I will still use them regardless.

[Nutz]

Originally posted by retired
Nutz
"I've found that right off the bat.....".

Oh how wrong you are......this clip was from my first round against an area coach who at the time was kicking seven bells out of my legs.

To say my statement is not correct is a fallecy of relevance on your part. To put it simply, your experience is not the same as mine. (I probably should have included the fact that I was speaking in relationship to the streetfight, not the ring or dojo.)

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by Lizard
Even if it can be effective, if my life was in danger and I was full of adrenalin I would not attempt a spinning kick.

Neither would I.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by IPON
MTF - I do think you are missing the point. allthings equal an jumping front kick is slower than a front kick (fraction of a second or so) by the virtue of jumping, a cresent kick is also slower than afront kick and a front kink is probably slower than a reverse punch, please keep it in context. You do not have t o agree with the legitimacy of the technique, but make logical arguments. There are alot of people that can complete spinkin kicks with blinding speed, but all things equal I agree.

"The faster a technique is done whether it makes contact or not the less power will be involved."

MTF this statement is simply not true. While I said it does happen it is becuase people do not practice the technique properly......the goal of every technique is speed/power. You reject the concepts the circle/whipping power and the amount of power (torque/velocity) that can be generated. I have kicked many very large men into a wall while hold the heavy bag while I did these kicks. But that is the Dojang I do think my accuracy is good enough (for my standrds) to consider it a first or second move, but again in the right situation I would.

Becuase a tachnique may not work for you does not mean the technique is useless. Now the question of being practical in the street?? Hmm, I generally think any high kicks are risky, but again someone people really have the speed to pull off.


Your post was generated to ask a question, so you should be open to different opinions. Again we can agree to disagree, but disagree with the correct understanding of the technique.

OOPS I meant to say the faster a technique is done whether it makes contact or not the more power will be involved,I didn't mean to write slower,but I do still feel the slower a technique the less power.

I just can't imagine how any power can come from a technique that takes half the time of another technique makes no sense to me,since I feel with speed comes power.You can't honestly believe that a technique that takes half the time of another can have more or just as much power.

A front kick slower then a reverse punch no way can that be possible,I would think it is the other way around.Now if you said a jab and a front kick I would have to say both are about the same unless a person is not that quick with his legs or not that good of a puncher.

I am open to other opinions,I am just trying to make sense of it all,but I appreciate you giving your opinion even though I totally disagree with what you say about it being possible to have power in a spin kick.

[IPON]

MTF - again speed does not equal power.......I think this is one of the biggest problems that I see peopel kicking of punching fast but not really understanding how to generate power. Can you control your punches/kicks can you kick fast with very little power and then dothe sam e kick with power and the speed basically the same (and possible slower with power by fractions). When someone pulls a punch it does not mean they strike with less speed but less force.

Regarding the reverse punch it was just an example jab is fine also, it is the concept I was trying to illustrate. But the reverse or even a vertical punch are fast puches or should be (if you don't use it maybe not) and the distance is travels is very short compared to and chamber and extension of your leg. That was your point about rejecting teh spin kick.

Also, I am not talking half the speed like in minutes but 1-2 at most (fractions is some cases)

Hey we can always agree to disagree. I think the question in the thread was not are carp but are they useless or not. I think the answewr you read is the are useful. Next question are they practical, from a street perspective I think everyone agrees that unless you are the exception it probably would not be used but the are time when is can be useful.

I am having bouts insomnia so I hav't been to sleep for almost 3 days.....when I get some sleep I may change some of this but basically this is true.....please other let me know idf I am delusional...I might be who knows ....were is my pillow.......

[Damian Mavis]

hmmm I think people have tried to explain the flaw in your logic several times MTF... I don't know what I can say that might shed some light but I will try one last time.

You said "I just can't imagine how any power can come from a technique that takes half the time of another technique makes no sense to me,since I feel with speed comes power.You can't honestly believe that a technique that takes half the time of another can have more or just as much power. "

Ok, now imagine the jab as a car going 100 km/h starting 1km away. Now imagine the spin kick as a car going 100km/h from 2km away. They start at the same time to reach the same target. Do you recognise that they are going the SAME speed but because one is further away (the spin kick is further away then the jab punch) it will reach it's target after the jab would. Does that make it less powerful or just later to hit with the same if not more power? I used 2 cars going the same speed as a basic example but in truth the spin kick is accelerating the whole time it is in motion. You keep thinking if something hits it's target later then something else it must be slower, you are totally discounting the fact that one object could be further away and not slower at all. Understand what we mean yet?

Here's one more just to be sure. 2 exact same guns are fired at the exact same time at the exact same target but one is twice as far away as the other. Now which one will hit it's target first? If you answered the faster one you are a winner! No I'm just joking, the answer is the closer one will hit it's target FIRST but now you have to grapple with this brain twister: which one was faster!? If you guessed the faster one is faster well then I think my head is going to explode. They are going the same speed, so trying to work out which one has more power based on which hits it's target first is futile.

I apologise in advance for having a bit of fun at your expence.


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Silent Giant]

I believe that a spin kick can be a useful addition to one's arsenal in the ring, but in a real life fight, its not good. It all comes down to technique, timing and execution. Its only useful if you don't telegraph it.

[retired]

spinning kicks are used by our fighters & have won fights but our instructor doesn't bother with them as they can be countered more often in thaiboxing by the leg kick (not like kickboxing) but some of our fighters come from a tkd background and are very proficent with this kick and brought it into their techniques.

so in awnser to the thread Yes spinning kicks are usefull but only when timed corectlly and the skill of the fighter is proficent enough to pull it off.

but this idea that a spinning kick being slow doesn't weigh up when it's used correctly like when the fighter is caught on the ropes or bouncing off them & if the kick is thrown just after a stun blow or distraction then by the time the kick is noticed it's to late to evade & a strong guard is relyed on.

and these kicks can be thrown with lightening speed by the pro's.

[Damian Mavis]

Yup yup.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Nit]

Originally posted by retired


and these kicks can be thrown with lightening speed by the pro's.

I agree, for the gerneral hoi polloi spins kicks would not be ufesul ont he street, far easier just to smash the crap out of them...

but if you have trained hard and can perform it well it's something that give you an edge, when your in a street fight you don't usually expect something like that, espicially if its hidden with a combo.

slightly off the note, re distracting your opponent before doing a technique.

Last month we learned a funny combo, I think its a boxing thing more than Wado Ryu. Where with your (left stance) right hand you an above ridge hand strike in a big circular motion, the opponent bloks usually with their forearm (Jodan Uke). The funny bit is at the same time you do the ridge strick also do a front jab with your left... this totally surprises the opponent who is busy guarding their head from a 'big' strike. what is funny is you can do it time and time again, almost like instinct they will block and get a bop on the nose...

me is purile kid to like this move...