Which arts are closest to a real fight?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by Roland


You need to go to better clubs.

Dance floors LITTERED with broken glass?

1 fallen glass will do that, I've never seen the dancefloor be cleaned duing the opening times

And seeing that most brawls/SD situations do not start at the beginning of the night chances are, at least one glass has been dropped and scattered around

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
running.


When several guys start chasing you, you run.
When someone fires a gun you run.
When someone pulls a knife you run.

Most realistic situation.

For what it's worth:

My Most "Realistic" Fight occurred as follows:

Got left standing on a subway platform on the lower eatside of manhattan after missing the train by about .... oh 30 seconds.

At this point you would think that my MA training would have started to kick in and I would pay attention to what the hell was going on around me - oh well screwed that up (hey it was late ...)

2 Dudes walk up and want my stuff - Hey, best defense - give it up to them ....

Problem - dude number 1 starts to reach behind his back to grab something (gun? knife? stick? etc.....) - at that point it's a real fight - Dude #1 gets a briefcase (with approx 25 pounds of crap in it) to the side of the head - dude number two gets a raging groin kick - what happens next ?? - run like hell - I DON'T want to know what he had behind his back.

------------------------


As far as ground fighting in clubs goes - in the clubs that I've bounced in (wyoming, texas, NJ ) - we very, very rarely had glass on the floor (if it was there it got cleaned up immediately) - but I still don't think I'd want to go to the floor - to many guys with pointy toed boots standing around to kick ya in the head - the few times I've ever had to physically remove someone from the premises I've found that a blade kick to the outside of the knee is most effective - drunk or not, feeling pain or not - if your knees can't support you - you can't stand .......

[Kingston]

so what was behind guy #1's back?

did you run after you found out?

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by nolimitskarate

As far as ground fighting in clubs goes - in the clubs that I've bounced in (wyoming, texas, NJ ) - we very, very rarely had glass on the floor (if it was there it got cleaned up immediately) - but I still don't think I'd want to go to the floor - to many guys with pointy toed boots standing around to kick ya in the head - the few times I've ever had to physically remove someone from the premises I've found that a blade kick to the outside of the knee is most effective - drunk or not, feeling pain or not - if your knees can't support you - you can't stand .......

If you are referring to a Japanese style side kick, with the edge of the foot (not the ball) and the knee parallel to the ground, I'd have to agree with you 100%.

That's probably one of the most effective karate kicks thrown at the best target. It DOES work. But you have to follow up otherwise the guy is just going to grimace and grab for his knee.

I've seen Tang soo do guys do this one and follow up with a lead leg hook kick to the jaw and knock a guy out. Or you could follow up with a fast right cross/jab or jab/hook.

[one sword]

I was lucky that it wasn't a jack daniels bottle.

NEVER GO TO THE GROUND IN A CROWDED AREA UNLESS IT IS YOUR CROWD!!!!!

You never know how many friends some dickhole has at his back, he could be the bar owner's nephew, you don't know. Now if you have numbers why not. Personally I would rather just throw someone else on the ground and stay on MY feet, better for running or fighting other people that way.

[osopardo]

Originally posted by one sword
Personally I would rather just throw someone else on the ground and stay on MY feet, better for running or fighting other people that way.

My sediments, eggzagly!

[jubaji]

Originally posted by one sword
I was lucky that it wasn't a jack daniels bottle.

NEVER GO TO THE GROUND IN A CROWDED AREA UNLESS IT IS YOUR CROWD!!!!!

You never know how many friends some dickhole has at his back, he could be the bar owner's nephew, you don't know. Now if you have numbers why not. Personally I would rather just throw someone else on the ground and stay on MY feet, better for running or fighting other people that way.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ignorance at its best(no offence)

Originally posted by one sword


The thing is though you can get that from stats. FBI says 90% of fights go to the ground.

The bottle thing though is not for sure. Different people take different strokes. I have a friend who after being knocked down by two people smashing two pool cues on his head, jumped up and yelled, "I'm goin' to kill you mother f@#$%$#". They ran away. I was hit one month ago from behind my a kaluha bottle filled with water. I later went to the hospital to get staples put in, but not before I turned around, grabbed his throat and kicked his ass out of the house. I didn't even flinch when he hit me. Even though it was a suprise, blood imediately flew everywhere(mostly on my girlfriends face), and I suffered a mild concussion; I still was able to control nearly every movement he made. Some people are built tough. Some people train hard and can take licks. Some people are dumb and get used to being hurt bad. I'm probably a little of all

Don't forget to mention adrenuline rush.

[DKMerriwether]

What sense does this argument make?This question is sooo old it

gets boring to rehash it all the time. Enjoy whatever art or style

you choose and stop worrying about a subject that is so packed

with variables,the real answer will never get revealed. If the style

you study keeps you healthy,free from sickness,give you peace of

mind,dont worry about this insane question.The style that is the

best is the one that you enjoy paying for with your hard earned

money. NO one style has and never will have all the answers,no

matter how famous a certain person maybe in a particular

method, or how many titles he or she may have won. The sad

truth of the of the matter is what happen to Alex Gong(may God

rest his soul).So never think that because you believe,or was told

by some wise person, that there is one style that is better

than all the rest. So train hard,be true to yourself,and good

things will happen for you. Peace

[barspinmatt]

D.K.Merriwether has hit the nail on the head with very wise words.

Not a contradiction as such, but just touching back onto this subject for a second.

Before I knew any style of fighting other than what I had learnt from being beaten up. I had only ever once won a fight, but lost or won, none of these fights had it lasted longer than 30-40 seconds.

The only person I ever beat was a 6 foot 2 second dan black belt in Karate. How? I just punched him. Yet a scally a year my junior engaged my brain with a comment, and jabbed me to the wind pipe the week before, taking me down instantly. what style did he know? none believe me! but surley, a 6 foot 2 gobby trophie winner who was a secon dan black belt should be able to take a punch? well, I suppose he couldn't.

People who really know an art, and are accomplished in it, either run from street situations or defuse them with intellect. The worst fights I have seen, are when someone spouts out for years how good they are at a self defence art form, and then the city/town nobs see this as a trophie! and really hurt said person as he/she is a trained martial artist.

People tend not to realise the true danger that sits outside your front door. How many news articles do you see of men/women who stopped a youth stabbing them? none it doesn't happen very often at all! but people get stabbed beaten up and much worse all the time. Or they just run away! and that's the best thing to do in the street, if you then see them again, you have the upper hand and can offer them a man o man there and then like a respectfull martial artist would.

I train in Muay Thai, and have done for a short while after getting where I wanted to in TQD. I am yet to be punched hard enogh for it to hurt, but kick my legs and I'm down, screaming in agony (My instructor is toughening them after said insident ha ha) This is because of how many times I have been beaten up, stamped on and headbutted while I was young. But no one ever kicked my legs, hence down I go!

The same thing goes for the 6 foot 2 Karate dude, he had never once, in his whole entire life been punched clean in the face. I found this out as he did arrange to see me and we are pretty good mates now. But the sheer irony of that situation brings home the fact that no one style will save you, nor are you better than anyone else, and mainly, showing disrespect in a sure fire way of getting yourself into trouble.

However a rule governed situation either in the ring, or on the mats is a totally different situation all together in my view.

Stay happy lads, and keep fit, running away in the street/club or whatever is a mans art, fighting for your club the following day is a gentlemans art.

Fighting in the street? well if you lose your going to be in pain, if you win.....ooo lets see, I see a very long prison sentence. The laws in Britain are stacked agaist us, run rabbit run! is what I say.

[William Eriepa]

I think the question should be who would win a match between two individuals, that are aware they are in a fight, and have no weapons, and of course no rules except the aforementioned.
I mean its all good sneaking up on a unready opponent, who doesn't have a clue hes being stalked, and jabbing him in the back with a knfie, but it hardly tests your fighting skills.
But personally, I believe their are styles out their that are inferior to others for full contact, unarmed fights, just to name a few, certain TKD, certain Karate, Boxing. These are just too restrictive for full contact, unarmed fights.
Talking about the infinite situations you could find yourself in on the streets is insane to me, and hardly protrays what an unarmed street fight is about. From what alot of people have been saying, if you were on the street, and some random guy hiding in the boot of his car, killied you with his sniper, you would have been described as being in a street fight, personally I would not call this a fight whatsoever. Neither would I call myself being in a fight if some guy held me at gunpoint and asked for my cash.

[barspinmatt]

The gent below has a very good point, one worth reading. I agree.

[MuayThaiFighter]

The thing is though you can get that from stats. FBI says 90% of fights go to the ground.

The bottle thing though is not for sure. Different people take different strokes. I have a friend who after being knocked down by two people smashing two pool cues on his head, jumped up and yelled, "I'm goin' to kill you mother f@#$%$#". They ran away. I was hit one month ago from behind my a kaluha bottle filled with water. I later went to the hospital to get staples put in, but not before I turned around, grabbed his throat and kicked his ass out of the house. I didn't even flinch when he hit me. Even though it was a suprise, blood imediately flew everywhere(mostly on my girlfriends face), and I suffered a mild concussion; I still was able to control nearly every movement he made. Some people are built tough. Some people train hard and can take licks. Some people are dumb and get used to being hurt bad. I'm probably a little of all

I agree. If cops can say 90% fights go to ground it must be true, they must know what they are talking about, because they deal with violence everyday.

[m.artist]

it's also tru that 90% of fights go to the ground if both fighters are inexperianced...which is why now there are bjj and tjj schools everywhere..of all the fights i have been in none of them have gone to the ground...so i can't say "90%" for me...but still it's a good skill to have

[adacas]

hey 90% of fights end up on the ground because I put them their so I could more easily stomp on their heads...I wish . I had to roll almost everytime I fought because when I knock them down they take me with them.