Which arts are closest to a real fight?

[IPON]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ignorance at its best(no offence)

Originally posted by S.Anucha


This UFC crap has totally brainwashed people and the guys who are doing the "I am the street warrior" promotionary stunt need a good lesson!!!!

S.Anucha LOL I think when you try to demystify fighting and the fantasy of being the ultimate warrior I don't think peopel can handle it. But I would not the stylists in UFC PRIDE K1 etc are light weights either.

And hey I have never lost a fight or been knockedout but I have gotten my ass kicked more than a few times. I think getting KO'd would have been better

I have never agreed with the "90% of all fights end up on the ground" when teh Gracies started saying that in the earyly 90's... its garbage especially if somone with fighting skill is involved. People should take from thier own experience and if they don't have any, fine. But have an open mind to other people s experiences....

[MuayThaiFighter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ignorance at its best(no offence)

Originally posted by S.Anucha



No offense but what shite are ye talking aboot????

9 out of 10 fights go to the ground? mate where on bloody earth did you learn that? a good fighter is gonna win a fight in seconds so long as he isnt gonna be fighting some guy who already has the ability to fight well! Street figths are bull-fucking-shit! Ask any local thug what does he prefer to do.... "erm, hello there M.r Thug, may i ask how would you like a fight to go? would you (a)like it to go to the ground or (b)prefer to fight standing?" he is either gonna whip out some weapon and stick it over your head or whistle to his mate then give you a beaten or he may well say "mate I will do anything to kill the fucker" MuayThaifighter have you ever came across such people.... you know the type, football hooligan? what would you do if one of them attacked you? No thug ever wants a fight to go to the ground and probably most thugs have had more figths than enough, you know these guys learn the tricks of the trade when it comes to street fighting so I think I'd listen more to a converted football hooligan than some self promoted UFC champion telling us all how it is to fight on the street, pfft! they know how to fight in the octogon....

...to all UFC champs who spin this street bull I say come to my fucking city and spin yer shit, I think most of the local dickwabs would be happy to give you a good seeing to and maybe let you test your skills out on them!


This UFC crap has totally brainwashed people and the guys who are doing the "I am the street warrior" promotionary stunt need a good lesson!!!!

I don't get this from stats or UFC I get this from my own experience not just from what I see but from fights I myself have been in on street.

No shit a guy isn 't going to come up and ask you how you want to fight he'll just start it.

I don't need to ask any thug I know how fights go I fought all through elemantry and high school years both in school and on the streets.Violence seemed to follow me every where I went.

In school I was the one loner type kid who always got bullied and had no choice but to fight. So trust me I know alot about real fights. One thing is you don' t need to ask if you want to fight standing up or on ground that would be plain stupid and is rediculous for you to even bring up. A person who wants to attaack will do whatever he wants it is up to you to defend yourself.

In my exeperience of fighting there is grabbing jacket or shirt and pulling over person's face, pulling hair,eye gouching, biting punching,head locks,head butts,choking getting kicked in groin sometimes kneeing and most times even pulled or tripped to ground.Some guys may take you to ground and walk away others will take you to ground and keep punching or kicking the shit out of you and unless you know how to protect yourself on ground you are basically screwed against those who won't walk away.The worst is if the guy tries stabbing you while he has you pinned on ground then you for sure can't do anything.Remeber there are no rules and no referees in a real fight.

In some fights there are even bottles being broken on person's head ,you can 't tell me you won't go to ground if you get a bottle smashed on your head and end up needing 25 stitches.

If you honestly don't believe 9 out of 10 fights go to the ground then it shows you have never been in a real fight. Chances of knocking some out with one hit is very unlikely in a fight the other person is fighting back too it 's not like hitting a heavy bag.Unless you have the guy cornered it is more likely to end on the ground.

The fact is all fights start off standing up with two or more guys punching the crap out of each other and grabbing and eventually go the ground whether they know grappling or not.

In most fights a person will grab you just before they punch you
just the way hockey players fight except hockey players are on ice, or they will punch you when your back is turned if you are not ko'd you are going to fight back and chances are one of you is going to end up on the ground and hopefully it won't be you.

I have kicked someone before in a real fight and eventually took guy to the ground pinned his arms with my knees and started pounding on him by punching him in mouth over and over again and got my knuckles cut up by his braces. I don't suggest anyone punching a person with braces in the mouth.

Another example of going to ground a friend of mine that many people are scared of because they are intimitdated by his height and size(6'1 ,250 lbs) used to do alot of street fighting and one day in a club he ended up on ground by a guy who smashed a beer bottle on his head because he was mistaken for someone else. My friend ended up with 25 stitches going down his ace. This same friend of mine had been a bouncer before so that must tell you he knew how to fight.When he fights he's a freaking psycho but then again so am I.

Another time this same friend of mine put a guy through a scho ol window for h assleing his sister. Do you think this guy who went through the window was still standing ? Of course not he ended up in hospital.

These are only three examples but my point is that you are wro ng to say most fights don't end up on ground. In every one of my fights one of us always ended up on the ground.

[darrianation]

Ritalin poster child!

MuayThaiFighter dude you need to get back on your Ritalin. In fact maybe you should put it in your crack pipe and smoke it.

First you shouldn't be fighting so much and second fights in kindergarten and elementary school really don't count.

Yeah you should have some good ground knowledge incase you slip or he slips and pulls you down with him, but your ground techniques should enable to return to your feet again. The ground is no place for a street fight. There has already been given plenty of reasons why in this and other threads.

In my limited experience in street situations (after high school that is) only one of mine went to the ground but I didn't stay there long. I have seen quite few people fight and maybe the number that I've seen go to the ground have been closer to 50%. I suspect more go to the ground in reality but I really don't think it's 90% unless you count all the slips and falls that people immediately recover to their feet from.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Re: Ritalin poster child!

Originally posted by darrianation
MuayThaiFighter dude you need to get back on your Ritalin. In fact maybe you should put it in your crack pipe and smoke it.

First you shouldn't be fighting so much and second fights in kindergarten and elementary school really don't count.

Yeah you should have some good ground knowledge incase you slip or he slips and pulls you down with him, but your ground techniques should enable to return to your feet again. The ground is no place for a street fight. There has already been given plenty of reasons why in this and other threads.

In my limited experience in street situations (after high school that is) only one of mine went to the ground but I didn't stay there long. I have seen quite few people fight and maybe the number that I've seen go to the ground have been closer to 50%. I suspect more go to the ground in reality but I really don't think it's 90% unless you count all the slips and falls that people immediately recover to their feet from.

I don't street fight I have no need to if I did I would, without any reason fighting on street is stupid.

I agree that if you have ground experience that you should be able to return to your feet,which I'm sure I and most with ground experience can do on street,but I was talking about the average guy on the street.Not everybody does martial arts
that's why I say most fights end on ground,if you know grappling your chance of getting up again or even avoiding being taken to ground in first place is higher.

All the fights I won I had taken person to ground and started pounding on them but that was before I ever did martial arts.Yes I have seen some fights won without going to ground but not many.

I know guys that if they took you to ground they'd force you to bite on cement step or something by grabbing your hair and then jump on your back knocking out all your teeth of course they are going to the extreme though, where as I still know my limits.

No,I'm not including slipps.

[S.Anucha]

Re: Re: Ritalin poster child!

Originally posted by MuayThaiFighter


I know guys that if they took you to ground they'd force you to bite on cement step or something by grabbing your hair and then jump on your back knocking out all your teeth of course they are going to the extreme though, where as I still know my limits.

WOW!!!! can I meet him please

nah but seriously I reckon too much television me laddie! American History X ring any bells?

I know guys that would, when they have you in a an arm lock and on the ground, manouver your head to their butt then fart on your head! its called the "stinky poo poo" technique! taught to many a UFC fighter.

Remember it MTF, just say "hey guys that dude S.Anucha taught me a really neat trick" then watch then run!!!!!

I actually read somewhere here that sticking yer finger up their arse is a good technique, haha, sorta would make me squirm. Damn those UFC fighter sure like to fondle with the lads genitiles!! eh? eorta makes ya think dont it

[darrianation]

MTfighter

I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying. You talk as if you have all this experience in street fighting in one post then in the next you say that you don’t street fight because you have no need for it. Which is it?

I’ll tell you of some of my observations over the years. Generally speaking the inexperienced or the poor asshole getting the worst of things grabs on and holds (headlocks and etc), or tries to wrestle. This is the reason ground knowledge is important, but I still don’t agree 90% of fights go to the ground.

You said trouble was always around you. I’ve known your type always in trouble. A lot of this has to do with the choices they made, who they hang with, ego, and not being able to let things go. I had a couple of friends like this always in fights and when I was hang’n with them I’d always get dragged into it. The problem was they would always blame the other guy, or on circumstances, but the fact was most of the time in one way or an other it really was their fault. It was their ego that got them in trouble most of the time. They just couldn’t let anything go. They had to protect their man hood or what ever so fight’n would commence. In 99% of these fights it wasn’t really necessary to fight, and fights could have been avoided. I learned not to hang out with these guys and now I haven’t been in a street fight in over ten years. All I had to do is watch who I associated myself with, not let my ego get the best of me and just chill.

Going to the ground is dangerous because there may be someone else there ready to stomp your face beyond all recognition. There have been ample reasons in this and other threads why going to the ground in a street fight is a bad idea, so I won’t bore you with anymore reasons.

In my opinion for me the best MA for the street is MT and Judo, others might disagree and have their favorites like boxing and BJJ, or MMA which is the same thing only taught together as one art (striking and grappling). There is also MA’s that teach just SD like Krav maga, Tony B. and etc, but one thing they all teach is to avoid a bad situation in the first place, and if you have to defend your self then go on the offensive and if you do go to the ground for what ever reason get back up in a hurry.

Well now I’m ranting again I apologize but let me end with a quote from some one I look up too Geoff Thompson “I can sum up self-defense in five words. Learn to hit f***ing hard!”

[BadgerFu57]

Glock 17?

[one sword]

I don't want to sound like an a$$, I am not the best fighter even in my town, much less my club, or in other schools in my town; however, NO STYLE OF FIGHTING IS ANYTHING LIKE A REAL FIGHT!

All styles are just tactics. There is only one egonomical way for any one person to strike at a particular angle. In a fight styles become crap. If you try to fight like a Thai boxer or a BJJ player than some country boy will stomp your head. Why, because he fights. If you want to be a good fighter stay away from arts and try cross training. Full contact spar with other people, skilled and not. Wear full pads, train on uneven surfaces, in the snow and rain, in street clothes. No style is whole. Fights are violent, graceless, and fast. If anyone here has ever seen a real spur of the moment fight last as long as any professional bout then I want to hear about it. In a REAL fight people don't have $100,000 on the line. They have health, pride, and lives to lose and that is all. All that happens is someone gives up or can't fight anymore. There are no rules in a real fight, if you call UFC, Pride, or anthing else no-holds-barred then you misunderstand that statement.

I am just trying to help fighters progress here. If you want to be a kickboxer, be one, or anything else. Be a constuction worker, but don't try to confuse sport or tournament or stylized martial arts with the serious reality of a street altercation.

If you want to know a style that helps you perform better in a real situation, look for the ones that don't claim style. La Coste, Bruce Lee, Miyamoto Musashi, they never wanted style, they just fought. That is what you should do if you want to be a fighter.

[grubbogoppoly]

La coste??

[Joshu]

The less said about this, the better. Who ever posted this is obviously a Muay Thai artist with some grappling experience. How sad. I personaly am a grapplier with kickboxing training, not to mention other things, and I don't feel the need for a poll to tell me if my art is effective. I have used it. I have fought, I have excepted challenges, I have foil even a mugging or three. Simple answer, ANY WELL CONCEIVED ARTS WORKS WHEN APPLIED CORRECTLY. That is the crux, does your INSTRUTOR perpare you for what is to come? Everything else is academic.

Miraming Salamat

[one sword]

Originally posted by grubbogoppoly
La coste??

John LaCoste. I don't want to get into it. He is one of the greatest escrimadors of the past century. Check out a small history of him here. It kind of gets into his stylelessness. http://www.ronbalicki.com/history_inosanto_kali.htm

[S.Anucha]

Originally posted by Joshu
The less said about this, the better. Who ever posted this is obviously a Muay Thai artist with some grappling experience. How sad.

Miraming Salamat

Maybe he is just a guy who just trains in Muay Thai, and anyway why would he "obviously be a Muay Thai artist"? and "with some grappling experience"? why? is it because there are many guys who give us a bad name by taking up Muay Thai and then shooting off about how great and fantastic it really is while demeaning other arts in the process? well you get these kinds of people in all forms of pyhisical training activities.

Muay Thai works, its been proven time and time again, its a fact that the training produces some the toughest fighters around, thats a fact and its also a fact the it would be ranking at the top or amongst the top as one the best fighting systems around, but! you do need a certain kind of person behind the wheel or its useless, you cant expect just simply because you know Muay Thai that you then become superman! so yes I agree that these "which arts are better" questions are dumb and probably only ever asked by people who are either inexperienced martial artits/fighter or absolutely stupid.

[darrianation]

I guess I get a little tired of people who say this style or system is better or worse than that for self-defense, or no style is better. Some training is better than no training. Just because someone trains in a traditional MA doesn’t mean he/she can’t defend themselves, but it doesn’t mean they can either.

Talking about styles. They give us our arsenal of techniques and sooner or later we will learn to use the ones we like and can make work for us in essence creating our own style I really think this is what is meant that a system/style is just a mode of transportation to get you there. There? Whatever you goals may be to include self-defense.

It shouldn’t matter what style/art you study it matters how you use it. You can take two black belts from the very same dojo with the same amount of training and under the same instructor put them in the same self-defense situation one can be victorious and one beat to a bloody pulp. It has nothing to do with the style/system but in the personal physical and mental attributes of each, and the way they can apply the techniques they were taught.

There are systems that may be better for self-defense and true these tend to be non-traditional arts such as some MMAs, Krav maga, And my personal favorite Geoff Thompson, and others. I think it helps tremendously to have striking skills and grappling skills to be more effective in self-defense. I personally like MT and judo together but that doesn’t mean just because you knew this that you could automatically defend yourself under any circumstances but it sure would help. I also don’t believe that just because you only knew shotokan karate that you would always get your face beat in either.

I think it really comes down to Physical strength and conditioning, and even more importantly mental toughness.

[one sword]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ignorance at its best(no offence)

Originally posted by MuayThaiFighter
I don't get this from stats or UFC I get this from my own experience not just from what I see but from fights I myself have been in on street.In some fights there are even bottles being broken on person's head ,you can 't tell me you won't go to ground if you get a bottle smashed on your head and end up needing 25 stitches.

If you honestly don't believe 9 out of 10 fights go to the ground then it shows you have never been in a real fight. Chances of knocking some out with one hit is very unlikely in a fight the other person is fighting back too it 's not like hitting a heavy bag.Unless you have the guy cornered it is more likely to end on the ground.

The thing is though you can get that from stats. FBI says 90% of fights go to the ground.

The bottle thing though is not for sure. Different people take different strokes. I have a friend who after being knocked down by two people smashing two pool cues on his head, jumped up and yelled, "I'm goin' to kill you mother f@#$%$#". They ran away. I was hit one month ago from behind my a kaluha bottle filled with water. I later went to the hospital to get staples put in, but not before I turned around, grabbed his throat and kicked his ass out of the house. I didn't even flinch when he hit me. Even though it was a suprise, blood imediately flew everywhere(mostly on my girlfriends face), and I suffered a mild concussion; I still was able to control nearly every movement he made. Some people are built tough. Some people train hard and can take licks. Some people are dumb and get used to being hurt bad. I'm probably a little of all

[jubaji]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ignorance at its best(no offence)

Originally posted by one sword


I was hit one month ago from behind my a kaluha bottle filled with water. I later went to the hospital to get staples put in, but not before I turned around, grabbed his throat and kicked his ass out of the house. I didn't even flinch when he hit me.

Well, Kaluha's not that strong...