Which arts are closest to a real fight?

[cruor7]

I dont watch UFC. but sure. ok.

[ZAGA-BONGO]

Boxing is enough!

Here are a few martial arts styles that I believe to be the best and the closest to a real situation let me know what you think.

Consider which fighters of which styles wins most often in UFC, Sabaki Challenge, and Pride.

Pankration
Shooto
Savate
Muay Thai Kickboxers
Grapplers (judo,jujitsu,sambo and submission wrestling etc.)

Without a doubt are MuayThai fighters as well as grapplers great fighters in and outside of UFC,Sabaki Challenge and Pride, however the best styles are the ones that combine muay thai and grappling. These mixed martial arts styles have been proven over and over again to take on the world of martial arts, anyone who has doubts has not seen these competitions.

In my opinion Pankration,and Shooto are a few of the best fighters in the world of martial arts today, as they combine muay thai, a top stand up art with grappling.

From what I have written and from what you guys have seen in these competitions, which arts do you believe to be the best ?

I agree with you but you did not put BOXING. I trained only boxing for twelve years and I had many street fights, I don't take shit from no one and who has a problem with me I fix it without waiting, I have never met any one who could cope with a boxers pace, no matter whoy they were, even big guys, even who tried to clinch and take me down, a punch to the stomach or even to the balls and it's all sorted, when you train boxing for many years and you can take punches, in the street the way some guys hit you feels like they give you a caresse. I find Boxing alone more than enough especially when you are 186 tall and you weight 96 kg.
I am thinking of starting MT or BJJ, not that I feel any need but I am curious. I want to change from the boxing gym, it's been too long now!

[jubaji]

I don't take shit from no one and who has a problem with me I fix it without waiting, I have never met any one who could cope with a boxers pace, no matter whoy they were, even big guys, even who tried to clinch and take me down, a punch to the stomach or even to the balls and it's all sorted,

Uh-oh. Another tough guy!

[Tom Yum]

when you train boxing for many years and you can take punches, in the street the way some guys hit you feels like they give you a caresse. I find Boxing alone more than enough especially when you are 186 tall and you weight 96 kg. I am thinking of starting MT or BJJ, not that I feel any need but I am curious. I want to change from the boxing gym, it's been too long now!

For our non SI-measurement friends out here:

186 cm ~ 6' 1"
96 kg ~ 212 lbs

[sherwinc]

Uh-oh. Another tough guy!

all tough guys is all vulnerable if it hitted in 108 vital points........

for the first two primary targets:
1. both eyes
2. groin
(one hit will surely turn the tough guy as vulnerable as a baby)

question:
how can you hit that tough guy on those 108 vital points even thou you are weak in nature??????

answer:
learn more techniques, since techniques overcomes strength.......

CONVINCED????????

[jubaji]

learn more techniques, since techniques overcomes strength.......

Ah yes. The mantra of the desperate weakling.

[ZAGA-BONGO]

Uh-oh. Another tough guy!

Hey buddy, can you tell me about your training! I don't want toplay the tough guy but I just sayed about my experience in the street, I don't go looking for it but I just never let go if someone pisses me off! please don't get offended.
I am new to all the combat sport. the gym where I have been practicing for the last twelve years is a very old tradidtional boxing place, only boxing nothing else!

[fanman.]

why isn't Kung Fu on the list?

All hail Kung Fu

[Boxiados]

why isn't Kung Fu on the list?

All hail Kung Fu

cause it works more for Jet Li Movies!

[Boxiados]

Move, don't think!

[QUOTE=sherwinc]all tough guys is all vulnerable if it hitted in 108 vital points........

for the first two primary targets:
1. both eyes
2. groin
(one hit will surely turn the tough guy as vulnerable as a baby)

question:
how can you hit that tough guy on those 108 vital points even thou you are weak in nature??????


As if!
while you are thinking of which vital point to hit out of the 108 you are pretty dead yourself! Street fight is instinctive, everything happens so fast, there is no time for thinking!
AUGH!

[jubaji]

I don't want toplay the tough guy but I just sayed about my experience in the street, I don't go looking for it but I just never let go if someone pisses me off! please don't get offended.
:

I'm not offended, I'm amused!

[ZAGA-BONGO]

Hey Jubaji

I'm not offended, I'm amused!

Ok my friend, peace on you!
So tell me about what you do! Tell me about your experience in Combat sports and street fights.
Pax!

[ZAGA-BONGO]

Hey Jubaji

I'm not offended, I'm amused!

Ok my friend, peace on you! I am happy that you are amused!
So tell me about what you do! Tell me about your experience in Combat sports and street fights.
Pax!

[jubaji]

Ok my friend, peace on you!
So tell me about what you do! Tell me about your experience in Combat sports and street fights.
Pax!

Well, as you may have guessed by my previous comments, I find it rather silly to talk about how many fights (as in the street) one has been in. Who over a certain age hasn't been in a bunch of scraps? Its not so special, its unverifiable (if one is touting a 'record' in such things), and doesn't really add anything but an attitude.

That having been said, you have put up with my foolishness pretty well so far. The bulk of my experience is in wrestling. I've got more than 20yrs of wrestling experience, 5 of those NCAA Div. 1. Done some coaching here and there. I also studied a few things while living in China for a few years, then the same in Japan. And a little of this, and a little of that. My job requires frequent relocation so I have the chance to try different places, but not stay for more than a few years at a stretch.

[roku]

Mutual respect?

I started reading this thread because I enjoy the age old debate, and I was curious about people's perspectives. After reading the whole thing -- OK, I admit it was entertaining -- I find it hard to believe that all of the posters here are actually martial artists, and I'm not talking about Boxiado. For those who consistently launch personal attacks, do they teach respect for others in your schools? How about a little humility?

Why accuse Boxiado of being a poser, which, based on his web site, I doubt he would consider it the insult it was meant to be, just because he speaks from what seems to be real experience different from your own? Is it so hard to believe that just because he talks about winning a fight with any tool you've got, the absence of thinking time in a real fight, and does seem to represent the street mentality that I grew up with as well that he could possibly be real? Does anyone here who's actually got more than a years experience in MA and life find his not so off-the-wall story so hard to believe?

So he grew up in a tough neighborhood and had some scraps. So he relates it a little differently than you would. Maybe he's actually got a different perspective as a result with a grain of something to learn. Why not show some maturity? If you don't believe him, question. If you saw nothing of value, either ask more or don't. Why accuse or attack? Does it make you feel tougher? Superior? Is it even possible to make yourself feel tougher from behind a computer screen?

I gotta say, I'm glad I don't train with people who act this way.

Anyhow, now that that's off my chest, I'll post what I wanted to contribute before reading the Boxiado barrage...

I've been in a few street fights, talked my way out of many, witnessed some very brutal ones, and have about 7 years practical MA experience if you count wrestling, including wrestling, Aikido, a short and disappointing stint w/Karate, and BJJ. I'm now practicing both Aikido and BJJ. I've considered Muay Thai, but I have some goals to reach in my current arts before taking another.

First, the fights I was in, not counting elementary and junior high...

1. When I was younger and had zero formal MA experience, I ran with a croud that was not exactly a gang. My friends did enjoy fighting and usually won. Me, I didn't have any big desire to scrap, but I did have a bit too much pride.

My first fight with someone who knew what he was doing was on the ball court. I don't remember how the insults started, but it was probably kind of like this thread only no computers. I got called out by someone who hadn't lost any fights that I was aware of and really liked to fight. I'm old enough that most people on the street didn't have guns back then, though a lot did have knives. In this case, we knew each other enough to skip all weapons.

Since I had always been able to clinch and get neck crank or headlock submissions in my previous kid fights with people who had zero experience, we trade a couple blows with little effect, and I got him in a very tight headlock, both standing. While I was working on getting in for the neck and thinking I was relatively safe, he threw a very strong uppercut and broke my nose. Now I'd been hit before, and it usually served to get my adrenaline pumping enough to finish. That blow just made me weak out. It's not that I wanted to, I just ended up very disoriented. He proceeded to hit me a few more times at a boxer's pace, then the people around us broke it up. Later, I went out with my friends as I didn't know at the time that my nose was actually broken, and of course, I had to be cool. That was that for the time being.

2. My next fight, I was with the same group of friends, and I decided to go for a modified, more destructive necklock. Again, we traded a few blows, nobody got seriously hurt, then I got his neck locked and started using his elbows and body as a pogo stick on the pavement. He ended up giving up, and when I felt sure he meant it, I let him go.

3. Finally, the same night of #2, the same guy caught up with me again and said that he had the wrong boots on before and would kick my *** now that he was ready. This time, I got him in a head & arm and started pummeling him all over the face and head with punches. Remember, I had no training and some but not too many of the punches were a little damaging. After a while, people around us broke it up, and he left feeling beat. As it turns out, he had a few purple spots on his face, bleeding lip, etc., and though I never told anyone at the time, I had broken my hand. It was a greenstick fracture and I waited a day before getting it seen. As a result, they rebroke it without novacaine, but at least I didn't have to wear a cast and let my friends in on what would have surely turned my perceived victory into perceived defeat. I knew that I really lost.

After that, I've had little skirmishes, but no major fights in over 20 years myself. What I've seen since then is another story...

1. I was in my neighbors apt (didn't know him that well) just talking about something or other and the front door broke open. Three guys blew in and knocked him on the ground. One of them jumped over to me and pulled a knife. He said that if I stayed there, I wouldn't get killed. Well, I wish I could have helped my neighbor, but this was also before my training, the guy and knife were huge, and I was too afraid to do anything. Whether I had training or not, that could have been the right decision. Since I did think my neighbor could have died, I might choose differently today, couldn't say unless it happened again, and I hope it never does. Anyhow, one of the three, who had a beef with this guy, proceeded to kick and jump up and down on my neighbors head and face with boots rendering him bloody and unrecognizable. Then they left. I called 911, and my neighbor was taken to the hospital with a broken jaw, some broken facial bones, and concussion. I wonder which art resembles that fight?

2. I was driving / cruising with a friend of mine on a street where people did that. Some rednecks started things by spouting racial insults and threats at an Asian group of guys. The two groups squared off and one of the Asian guys pulled out nunchucks and started towards the other group. One of the other group pulled out a baseball bat, got one solid swing, and caved in the Asian guy's head. Not a pretty sight. The guy went down and was twitching until the aid car and police came. I'm pretty sure the guy died, and I think it's likely that the other guy ended up in jail. I wonder which martial art resembles that fight?

Since that time, I've talked my way out of at least 4 fights, one where a friend and I were surrounded by about 20 people, and I believe I prevented one with a belligerent by getting a fast wristlock on him long enough for him to feel it and letting go quickly enough for him to reconsider while no one else had to see him lose face. I've taken a knife away from a crazy woman, who probably didn't really want to use it on me. I've also thrown someone who launched themselves at me and succeeded in directing them to a soft landing which caused them to reconsider as well. I'd say all of those were lucky and could have been worse.

IMO, fighting for real means someone is being very stupid, and is always a last resort. I can actually think of no reason that I would fight except as sport or to protect myself or others. No reason. If faced with a real fight, I would try talk my way out of it, defuse the situation as much as possible, and swallow pride and leave if necessary. If I ever do fight for real, I will use everything I am able to use to win, and I would hope that first neither I nor someone I care about gets hurt, and second that whoever I fought survives as well. The second thing is not something I'll spend time worrying about until things are over.

As far as which martial art is best for street, I can only speak to my experience...

I've practiced Aikido in a few different dojos, and I think that in some, what they were teaching would be worse than learning nothing. Too many open holes, not enough awareness of the weaknesses you do have. Much of it taught in those places just plain wouldn't work but Uke was expected to go along with the technique anyways. These are the places that probably exist in most martial arts and give them a bad name. I've also trained in Aikido dojos where the techniques and concepts taught are very martial in nature, and I'm quite convinced that they would work extremely well if they are applied correctly. Usually, I've found that senseis in the latter case are much more open to questioning and discussion of other styles/arts with respect. It's also considered helpful if an Uke sees an opening to take it or point it out depending on their partner's level. IMO, such openness has a direct relationship on the quality of school.

I think some of what I learned in wrestling was great, and I think other parts could actually be detrimental by leaving openings that wouldn't hurt you in wrestling due to the rules. What I love about BJJ is that I get to unlearn those things while I take advantage of some of the good stuff that I learned as well.

As far as opinions not based on experience, I suspect that the breadth of Gung Fu and it's history in such a huge population means that some of it *must* be quite effective. I also suspect that much of it would also be like Tai Bo as mentioned before. I think the same could be said for Karate and other arts as well. For devastatingly effective and destructive arts, my impression is that Penchat Silat, Muay Thai, and Kali/Escrima are probably all quite effective, but I wouldn't knock an art until I learned at least enough to see unanswered holes being practiced by its experts.

Anyhow, if this is worth anything to anyone, great. If you think I'm a poser, I could care less. Maybe someone will get something of value from these experiences.

Peace.