Kata vs. Shadow Boxing

[DRG]

Look dickwad you are about the slowest one of the bunch you always resort to cutting people down because you can't think of any other argument.

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by DRG
Most of you guys couldn't think your way out of a paper bag.

Unlike you. Oh. Just like you.

OK, I admit it. Every world champion boxer IS wrong. And you're right.

Dildo breath.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I rather think my new best friend DRG does not care for you Brian.

Hmmm... I can't imagine why someone would think wrongly of you sir.

Look dickwad

I agree, Brian is a wad of dick. What! What!

slowest one of the bunch

I'm sorry to say I can't support that statement at all. Brian ALWAYS has a comeback. He's sparred with some of the best debaters on the internet and has yet to lose an argument.

He rarely makes sense, often deviates off topic, and sometimes even gets banned, but he remains undefeated.

So you can't call him slow.

AND he can draw the trolls out into the open for the rest of us to laugh at.

Haw Haw Haw!

[DRG]

So when did I say boxers were wrong and about what ? I started out boxing probably before you were born Bri.

[grubbogoppoly]

"No we can not agree,because I don't.

Forms training are completely different from combination practice.

Forms train for co-ordination,balance,focus and leg strength however are missing the point of training to fight in which shadow boxing does.

As someone else explained previously,when shadow boxing you are fighting against yourself or another opponent.

However katas (forms)is simply that katas and they are pre-arranged movements,in shadow boxing you create your own combinations using everything you have learnt.

In a real life situation where you may be forced to fight katas will not properly prepare you,because in a real situation you have no time to think,you have to just react.

In shadow boxing you don't think about what you are doing you just throw your different punches,kicks,knees and whatever else you learnt etc.without thinking about what you are doing,which prepares you for a real situation.

In katas if you don't think about what you are doing you will mess up and do the kata wrong,in shadow boxing there is no right or wrong (unless you get sloppy with your punches and kicks) since you create your own combinations.Just like in a real fight you have to do what is going to work best for you and according to how you automatically react,not think about what techniques you learnt in each kata and how to apply each one,by then you would be finished.

You react according to how you train,if you train incorrectly you will fight to defend yourself that way and probably lose,if you train properly you will fight that way and hopefully win.

So there is a huge difference between kata and shadow boxing, for fighting shadow boxing is way more realistic.But when it comes down to it nothing is better then sparring full contact."
-----------------------------

You start this out talking about combinations and then change it to shadow boxing. .So what are you talking about? Shadowboxing or combinations???? I hope you do know there is a difference.

Second. .for this part specifically:
"In shadow boxing you don't think about what you are doing you just throw your different punches,kicks,knees and whatever else you learnt etc.without thinking about what you are doing,which prepares you for a real situation. "
If that is the way that you shadowbox then it is frankly ineffective. You don't just randomly throw punches and kicks. You have to think. Shadowboxing is fighting an imaginary opponent. You create situations in your imagination and react to them.

But again. .You started out the post talking about combinations and then continue to tell the difference between SHADOW BOXING and Kata.
Show me the difference between combinations and kata.

[Thai Bri]

Originally posted by DRG
I started out boxing probably before you were born Bri.

That explains it. You're a senile old fuckwit.

Touche Sir!

[brokenelbow]

Forms train for co-ordination,balance,focus and leg strength however are missing the point of training to fight in which shadow boxing does.

Which kata do this?

As someone else explained previously,when shadow boxing you are fighting against yourself or another opponent.

And this differs from how some do kata in what way?

However katas (forms)is simply that katas and they are pre-arranged movements,in shadow boxing you create your own combinations using everything you have learnt.

Or do you just practice your favorites?

In a real life situation where you may be forced to fight katas will not properly prepare you,because in a real situation you have no time to think,you have to just react.

So shadow boxing will make you into a unbeatable street fighter?

In shadow boxing you don't think about what you are doing you just throw your different punches,kicks,knees and whatever else you learnt etc.without thinking about what you are doing,which prepares you for a real situation.

How? You seem to be saying you flail at emtpy air without thinking.

In katas if you don't think about what you are doing you will mess up and do the kata wrong,in shadow boxing there is no right or wrong (unless you get sloppy with your punches and kicks) since you create your own combinations.Just like in a real fight you have to do what is going to work best for you and according to how you automatically react,not think about what techniques you learnt in each kata and how to apply each one,by then you would be finished.

When doing kata I rarely think about the next move, it's all muscle memory. When doing a technique in sparring or during a drill I don't think first A, then B then C, it just happens.

You react according to how you train,if you train incorrectly you will fight to defend yourself that way and probably lose,if you train properly you will fight that way and hopefully win.

Great, tell me about how you would face a knife?

So there is a huge difference between kata and shadow boxing, for fighting shadow boxing is way more realistic.But when it comes down to it nothing is better then sparring full contact.

I agree somewhat with your last statement. Are you talking about sparring FC without safety equipment?

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by brokenelbow
Which kata do this?

And this differs from how some do kata in what way?

Or do you just practice your favorites?

So shadow boxing will make you into a unbeatable street fighter?

How? You seem to be saying you flail at emtpy air without thinking.

When doing kata I rarely think about the next move, it's all muscle memory. When doing a technique in sparring or during a drill I don't think first A, then B then C, it just happens.

Great, tell me about how you would face a knife?

I agree somewhat with your last statement. Are you talking about sparring FC without safety equipment?

All katas.

This differs in the sense that kata as mentioned several times already are pre-arranged moves.Shadow boxing isn't.Shadow boxing is about throwing combinations in a fighting way.

Absolutely not,we don't just practice our favourites infact we often practice on our weakest points in order to improve.

I never once said that shadow boxing is the answer to being a good fighter but it is the answer to helping you improve your techniques,speed,and power, in other words the foundation to becomng a good fighter.Only sparring in itself can create a good fighter.

How would I face a knife you ask? Well I say the smartest thing for anybody to do if possible is scream so others can hear you,or if you have a gun shoot him before he stabs you./

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by DRG
There isn't any difference between a combo and a form. If you
think there is you should explain why, but of course you can't because you don't have a good answer other than thats what I've been told. Most of you guys couldn't think your way out of a paper bag.

What drugs are you smokin budd ? There is a huge difference between combo and form or katas,the difference is that combos as those seen in shadow boxing allow you to be creative instead of always following same pattern (s) and teach you way better focus.

[DRG]

Yeah I know who's been smoking what,Bri, oh I mean Britany has been smoking your pud hasn't she.

You still haven't explained jack, you can be as creative as you want with forms or kata as well as with shadow-fighting you don't have to do anyones kata, do your own if your smart enough to figure out what's effective.


You may focus or you may not doing shadow-fighting or kata/forms it's really up to the individual. If you can focus on shadow boxing surely you can put together combos and call them a form and focus on them. But it's not really boxing if you use legs, so shadow boxing is the wrong term isn’t it, try and get it right next time.

So your teachers don't give you patterns to work on like the old Jab,cross,hook combination, they just say throw your arms out one after another and focus, LOL give me a break. That combination if done in a prearanged order is a form. What if we add a groin grab to the rear, a toe stomp and an elbow to the rib simulating an escape from a rear bearhug is this a form or a combination?

[S.Anucha]

Shadow boxing is useful and often neglected, you imagine an opponent in front of you and strike him with the techniques you have learned, always imagine how a real fighter would react and move to avoid his attacks and counter this imaginary opponent etc.... shadow boxing is a part of training.


its useful to shadow box after the warm up session and before sparring or bag/pad work, treat as an important part of training and you'll benefit from it....

....by the way its usually inexperience that creates the belief that shadow boxing is useless, no offence meant, as you gain more experience then you will learn the benefits of shadow boxing.

I always shadow box, but i am not very experienced (5-6 years) I am lucky to have had very good, and still have very good, Muay Thai teachers. The amount one man can learn in 3 months from a good teacher can be mindblowing. dedication and motivation from each individual is different, the saying is "you get back what you put into it"


Good teachers should come first and foremost in training. If you doubt he/her who is training you then I would recommend searching for a new trainer, time waisted if you dont.

[DRG]

"Shadow boxing is useful and often neglected, you imagine an opponent in front of you and strike him with the techniques you have learned, always imagine how a real fighter would react and move to avoid his attacks and counter this imaginary opponent etc.... shadow boxing is a part of training.


its useful to shadow box after the warm up session and before sparring or bag/pad work, treat as an important part of training and you'll benefit from it....

....by the way its usually inexperience that creates the belief that shadow boxing is useless, no offence meant, as you gain more experience then you will learn the benefits of shadow boxing."

So tell us something we don't already know. Ive been boxing/shadow boxing for over thirty seven years and shadow-fighting which includes any kind of attack and defense mind you for well over 30 years.

Try to keep up here, the argument is about the difference between shadowfighting and forms, anybody got a clue as to what that might be?

Can you explain the difference?

[yenhoi]

Shadowboxing does not have an opponent. Just because you can imagine hitting, being hit, doging, being evaded, kickin, being kicked, doesnt mean any of those things are happening.

Yes, there is minor benefit in the fact that the pre-arranged combos that you are 'throwing' are not strung together the same way every time. The similarities between shadow boxing and forms far outweigh the differences. The limitations are almost the exact same.

No opponent. No resistance. No real aliveness.

Beneficial yes. "Better than...?" Maybe by a hair of your chin, but its not like very many people do both, so what does it matter?

A good shadowboxing round or rounds is almost completly spontaneous in the makeup of the groups of combos you will practice, but it is by no means uses no pre-arranged movements, and there is no opponent.

[S.Anucha]

"...Can you explain the difference?.."

nope, I havtn a clue about kata! sorry

[DRG]

Forms/kata are combinations, combinations are forms/kata. Do you not look at or pay attention to your form when drilling combinations or do you just throw your technique in any sloppy haphazard way it comes out?

What a form does that shadow boxing doesn’t is focus on just the right form of the technique, get it FORMS ?

Forms have their place, but most forms at least 99 percent are outdated and inadequate for use in fighting today’s modern fighters. Lets look at CMA’s forms, a lot of them use less than mobile and imbalanced stances and techniques that are very rhythmic and telegraphed. Some forms will place the hand on the hips and try to punch from there, some will swing in wide arcs, do 720 degree kicks, etc, etc, all very bad habits for a modern fighter. How about a Karate form, again not very mobile and very impractical, often very hard and relying on a one punch kill from a reverse punch or a block and return technique that is predictable.

The problem is not the form but the guy’s that wrote the forms way back when were limited by the technology of their day. The Koreans did it a certain way, the Chinese, Japanese etc did/do forms their way and they were for the most part limited to and inspired by their own people’s experience.

Today we have the ability to study any MA from anywhere in the world from the comfort of our living room by Dvd/video/book and/or the internet in a limited fashion, and can find people teaching disciplines that originated from all over right next door to us in many large cities. So now we have access to fighting techniques from everywhere, we can create our own forms that are a lot more efficient for whatever fighting task be it sport or street. A good form should cover the basics firstly, give you good attributes secondly, and push you beyond where you might otherwise go by yourself.

Shadow boxing/fighting allows you to have spontaneity and work on becoming less predictable but often allows the user to just work on the most comfortable and familiar techniques. Sometime you have to have something that can push you, and not get caught in that comfort zone and become lazy.

Are forms the answer to fighting? Hell no if your not interacting with others like in a real fight, if your not taking hits and struggling with a “live” opponent, if your are not hitting something and being hit, then all the forms/kata and shadowboxing/fighting in the world won’t help. And this is one of the areas where many Karate, Kung Fu ,Tae kwon Do, etc, etc schools fail. Like others who understand a good form, mind you I use the word good, a kata/form can and will help push your technique and conditioning to better levels.

I would rather work with a live opponent but they’re not always available for everyone at all times. Sometimes you have to use the tools available at the time, a good kata/form is just another tool in the toolbox.