MuayThai and Street Fighting

[MuayThaiFighter]

I have been in both Pankration tournaments and real street fights.

Personally from my experience in both I say Pankration and real fights are very similar in that most of the fights go from stand up to grappling.

Many fighters on street would use their knees on your face the difference is they would usualy pull your shirt over your face before doing so which cannot be done in MuayThai fights .Also ma ny street fighter would use a clinche just as used in MuayThai.Thi s in itself proves MuayThai's usefullness and effectiveness and show that MuayThai is based on reality fighting.

Lets not forget the grappling part of Pankration or grappling on its own.

In grappling just as in real fights when taken to ground whether from a simple punch or swept or whatever,once on the ground in most cases if not all there will be punching to head and face,perhaps even chokes etc.

Neither Grappling or Muay Thai guarantee a win but does being in a real fight either way some one is going to lose and it could be you.

So what are the similarities and differences of MuayThai, Grappling, and a real fight?

All most everything is similar in that combining the two arts gives you more options of what to do and basically allows a person to get away with alot more and end up almost looking like a real fight except with some rules.

The only difference in a real street fight and the combination of these arts is that there are no rules in a street fight.

In martial arts tournaments you can't bite,grabb hair,poke eyes,break knee caps,smash guys face on pavement,however on the street you can do it all.

However MMA' s are the closest you will come to a real situation.

[killer]

https://www.muaychaiya.com

[CKD]

Both arts are quite effective on their own but even they need to be heavily changed and modified. Doing muay thai for muay thai competition is a lot different than doing muay thai for mixed martial arts. Which explains why some of the best strikers in mma do not have a incredible kickboxing record and also shows why a lot of strikers games completely change when switching from mt to mma due to the heavy modification and changes they have made to their art. The same goes with bjj and wrestling. You see some wrestlers that have been able to adapt their game to mma by dramatically changing their game and you see some who have not done that and ended up doing horrible. A lot of stuff you learn in bjj can get you punched in the face in a vale tudo fight and so thats why you see a lot of people who train bjj and don't modify it or just simply train no gi get serious beatdowns in mma. All these arts do not allow everything you would find in a mma fight and as such all the arts change when being transferred. However they are all good arts they just need to be modified.

[gabbah]

Can you give examples of modifications needed for muay thai and grappling if they are to be used in mma? Would be interesting to know.

[CKD]

here is an article that gives some examples http://www.grapplearts.com/Sport-Spe...A-Training.htm I will go into more detail later but a few examples would be that in muay thai nobody shoots in for a takedown but in mma they can, so your stance changes. It needs to be much wider so you can sprawl. You have to learn to strike while avoiding takedown attempts. Kicking becomes much less common and most mma fighters use a modified thai kick. Kicks at the head are not as common. If you check out Cro Crop fighting in K-1 and compare that to the way he strikes in mma you will notice a difference. There are more modifications I could list but I will move on to the takedown part of the game. The wrestling stance obviously does not work in mma so fighters must learn to move around in a new stance and shoot from there. The way you set up takedowns in wrestling compared to mma is very different. In mma you typically shoot when a person is punching and you duck under the attack. While in wrestling people typically grab tie up in a low stance that would get you kneed in a mma fight and then they take steps typically in circles until the leg is close enouph to attack. When fighting in mma the clinch becomes different. The plum is not an extremely powerful position in wrestling but in mma it allows the fighter to launch many strikes. The posture in the clinch is much more erect compared to wrestling. You must learn to both utilize and defend against strikes in the clinch while also being able to both utilize and defend against many different types of takedowns. If you compare a wrestling instructional for wrestling to a instructional on wrestling for mma you will notice a huge difference. If you check out how randy(or any fighter with a wrestling backround) works the clinch in wrestling as compared to mma you will notice a huge difference. Also you will see a person who was better at wrestling get taken down easily by a less experienced wrestler when he goes to mma. There are many matches you can check out to see wrestlers who were not able to adapt there game. As you see no fighter can go into mma without making huge changes to his art. If you check out how an mma gym trains a range compared to a pure wrestling, muay thai, or bjj gym you can see the huge difference. I will talk about groundfighting and go more in depth on other differences in later posts. Sorry for the many typos.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Both arts are quite effective on their own but even they need to be heavily changed and modified. Doing muay thai for muay thai competition is a lot different than doing muay thai for mixed martial arts. Which explains why some of the best strikers in mma do not have a incredible kickboxing record and also shows why a lot of strikers games completely change when switching from mt to mma due to the heavy modification and changes they have made to their art. The same goes with bjj and wrestling. You see some wrestlers that have been able to adapt their game to mma by dramatically changing their game and you see some who have not done that and ended up doing horrible. A lot of stuff you learn in bjj can get you punched in the face in a vale tudo fight and so thats why you see a lot of people who train bjj and don't modify it or just simply train no gi get serious beatdowns in mma. All these arts do not allow everything you would find in a mma fight and as such all the arts change when being transferred. However they are all good arts they just need to be modified.

Doing muay thai for muay thai competition is a lot different than doing muay thai for mixed martial arts.

Very true.

True Muay Thai competition is alot different from doing mixed martial arts in the sense that in MMA a Muay Thai fighter also knows grappling.

Which explains why some of the best strikers in mma do not have a incredible kickboxing record and also shows why a lot of strikers games completely change when switching from mt to mma due to the heavy modification and changes they have made to their art.

I disagree here.

The reason some strikers don't have an incredible kickboxing record is because some styles train more in striking then kicking and styles like muay thai do 50/50.

I don't think changing to MMA has anything to do with being a good striker and not a great kickboxer.Some people simply are best with their hands others with their legs and some are fairly good with both,everyone is different and some feel best fighting on the ground.I enjoy training in both muay thai and grappling however I feel more comfortable doing muay thai because i feel more comfortable fighting from a stand position then on the ground although I can fight both ways.

A person who trains in Muay Thai should be good at both kicking and striking.

The reason for a muay thai person's fighting to change when doing MMA is simply because now they can fight both stand up and on ground and many are willing to take advantage of knowing how to grapple on top of their experience of stand up fighting, it's not because they are strikers and don't know how to kick so they decide to go into something that will teach them a little more then just striking, after all,all muay thai fighters know how to kick and punch.The reason for most Muay Thai fighters who switch to MMA is simply because we know how effective grappling is when combined with our Muay Thai and every fighter wants to be as effective as he/she can be.

MMA doesn't change the fact that Muay Thai fighters know how to kick,and them going into MMA is not going to make them any less at being a good kicker the only thing it changes is that now they have grappling experience combined with what they already know making them an even better fighter.

You see some wrestlers that have been able to adapt their game to mma by dramatically changing their game and you see some who have not done that and ended up doing horrible. A lot of stuff you learn in bjj can get you punched in the face in a vale tudo fight and so thats why you see a lot of people who train bjj and don't modify it get serious beatdowns in mma. All these arts do not allow everything you would find in a mma fight and as such all the arts change when being transferred. However they are all good arts they just need to be modified

I agree a 100%,that's exactly what Pankration is like.Today's Pankration is basically Muay Thai that has been modified by adding grappling to it,or Grappling that has been modified by adding Muay Thai which puts Pankration in the same category as MMA.

Not modifying an art by adding to your own experience is simply stupid, not to say that everyone should do MMA, since not everyone wants to compete anyways, but for those who are fighters it is ignorant to think your one art can beat someone trained in multiple arts that have been modified to work with one another.

just simply train no gi get serious beatdowns in mma.

I do think it is more realistic to train with no gi ,after all are you going to be wearing a gi on the street ? Nope,and besides it would be smarter to actually grab a person then a piece of clothing that can easily rip in a real fight before even being able to apply a technique like a choke.