Multiple Opponents

[Sagacious Lu]

Say what? What sense does that make? And to be honest, if he were as good as some suggested he'd be making millions, not 500k. Maybe YOU would rather do something like that, but realistically anyone else wouldn't, unless they were filthy rich and just enjoyed MMA. Cash still rules everything around us.

I repeat, there is something to what you're saying but this kind of sweeping generality is extemely ignorant. Not everyone is ruled by cash.

[SamuraiGuy]

Vitor realized he wasnt as good as he thought?

Mauling your opponent with 3 knockdowns, then a referee stoppage in the first minute of the first round..

Thats really gonna discourage him...

Oh and the money... yeah... if Im making 200k a fight, or even a year, thats still enough to have a very nice living, and spend all my time training, spending time with the wife, and owning Boarspear........ what else is there in life?

Now we should get back to arguing about the best way to defend multiple opponents, err.. discussing it.

If you want to continue this.. start a thread in MMA or boxing forum... but im gonna let you know, my hears not in this argument lmao...

[Uke]

Sagacious Lu

I repeat, there is something to what you're saying but this kind of sweeping generality is extemely ignorant. Not everyone is ruled by cash.

I'll believe it when I see it. Someone would turn down 2 million to box for 12 rounds guaranteed even if they lose, but take 200k to fight in MMA? Like I said , I'll believe it when I see it. That's like saying I'd rather play basketball on the street courts for bets of up to $50 rather than make 50 million over 10 years.

If making that sweeping generality is ignorant, I'm comfortable with that one.

[BoarSpear]

Granted you always carry a weapon but for the sake of the discussion if you weren't armed (and had nothing to improvise) you'd use a strangle hold? What kind of attackers would stop for something like that? If they were at all concerned for their comrade they'd just attack that much harder- and you would be easy prey since you would need both hands to control the choke. Am I missing something? This is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to address in my thread on chokes for self-defense before it got side-tracked by the troll.

Well dude you read the situation, IF you WANT to play nice, you can lock in the standing naked strangle and make him gurgle and drool, his eyes bulge and cause pure terror...IF that doesnt slow his buddies up, turn the adams apple into mush and launch his body into the other attackers as you evade or take out number two...use the bodies as shields and projectiles....not a choke though...a strangle...totally different intent and reaction from the victim...IF you have time talk to them...whisper in his ear...ease up let HIM tell his buds to back off....but escape is still hinky....i prefer a weapon for bargaining but the strangle is the next quickest attention getter.

[Uke]

I'm telling

The reason that this whole debate went the way of MMA is because SamuraiGuy highlighted something I wrote and then it took on a life of its own on page 4.

Sorry dude, but Boar made me snitch you out. He offered me 200k and I just couldn't resist.

[GQchris]

Ron Balicki had an interesting section on multiple opponents in his book JKD:The complete fighter...

[SamuraiGuy]

The reason that this whole debate went the way of MMA is because SamuraiGuy highlighted something I wrote and then it took on a life of its own on page 4.

Sorry dude, but Boar made me snitch you out. He offered me 200k and I just couldn't resist.

You never let me get my offer of 500K in first!

Oh btw, you said 2 million dollars over 200K, I said 200K over 500K... theres a difference when you quadruple the amount of money.

(In which case I'd just fight the boxing match, lose, go do MMA).

[Uke]

Sagacious Lu

Granted you always carry a weapon but for the sake of the discussion if you weren't armed (and had nothing to improvise) you'd use a strangle hold? What kind of attackers would stop for something like that? If they were at all concerned for their comrade they'd just attack that much harder- and you would be easy prey since you would need both hands to control the choke. Am I missing something? This is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to address in my thread on chokes for self-defense before it got side-tracked by the troll.

Sagacious, you should just go back a couple of pages. Its pretty much spelled out there.

Boar gave you a nice set of Cliff's notes though :lol

[Sagacious Lu]

Well dude you read the situation, IF you WANT to play nice, you can lock in the standing naked strangle and make him gurgle and drool, his eyes bulge and cause pure terror...

IMHO not a viable option- if they're afraid for their buddy they'll just mob you unless they're just complete push-overs.

IF that doesnt slow his buddies up, turn the adams apple into mush and launch his body into the other attackers as you evade or take out number two...use the bodies as shields and projectiles....not a choke though...a strangle...totally different intent and reaction from the victim...

This is what I don't understand. What's the difference between a strangle and a choke? Crushing the adam's apple may be possible but it's a lot easier said than done.

I'll believe it when I see it. Someone would turn down 2 million to box for 12 rounds guaranteed even if they lose, but take 200k to fight in MMA? Like I said , I'll believe it when I see it.
If making that sweeping generality is ignorant, I'm comfortable with that one.

I have a buddy who was honorably discharged from the Air Force less than a year ago. He just turned down a lucrative job with potential for growth with a large corporation and voluntarily took a dramatic drop in rank and pay to join the marines. Why? Because he wants to be a marine. Look at the best journalists- they get paid peanuts and their job is at least as competitive and demands as much or more time, hard work and talent as many jobs that pay much more- accountants, stock brokers, doctors, lawyers. Many scholastic types are the same way. Yet for some reason they are still driven to follow their vocation despite the fact that they could make more money and work shorter hours in another profession. What makes it so hard to believe that a world class athlete might just have a burning passion for MMA?

[SamuraiGuy]

Lu said :

"This is what I don't understand. What's the difference between a strangle and a choke? Crushing the adam's apple may be possible but it's a lot easier said than done"

BoarSpear actually got it wrong when he posted you were looking to strangle the person, not choke them.

A choke is when you cut off the air supply, thumbs pushing into the throat is a choke, a forearm across the throat is a choke.

Strangulation is when you cut off the blood supply to the brain with the Corroted arteries, a RNC when done right is a strangle, when its done wrong (just a forearm across the throat) its a choke.

Choke is air, Strangle is blood.

In Boarspears scenario you want to choke them, its more painful, will lead to hacking/coughing, and will make your eyes bulge and water, etc...

A strangulation will simply cut the blood off to your brain, it feels like your head is about to pop off, but it doesnt really hurt... puts you to sleep far faster though.

[BoarSpear]

Sagacious, you should just go back a couple of pages. Its pretty much spelled out there.

Boar gave you a nice set of Cliff's notes though :lol

Hehehehe yeah, i commented that post of yours NEEDS to be sticky...I can tell we swam in the same pool The concepts and level of awareness remind me of a couple or Professor's

[BoarSpear]

Lu said :

"This is what I don't understand. What's the difference between a strangle and a choke? Crushing the adam's apple may be possible but it's a lot easier said than done"

BoarSpear actually got it wrong when he posted you were looking to strangle the person, not choke them.

A choke is when you cut off the air supply, thumbs pushing into the throat is a choke, a forearm across the throat is a choke.

Strangulation is when you cut off the blood supply to the brain with the Corroted arteries, a RNC when done right is a strangle, when its done wrong (just a forearm across the throat) its a choke.

Choke is air, Strangle is blood.

In Boarspears scenario you want to choke them, its more painful, will lead to hacking/coughing, and will make your eyes bulge and water, etc...

A strangulation will simply cut the blood off to your brain, it feels like your head is about to pop off, but it doesnt really hurt... puts you to sleep far faster though.

When its taught in the Navy Specwar H2H programs its called a naked strangle hold...it IS an airway attack and it does hurt like hell...and it can easily be turned fatal and IS taught as a sentry removal technique

There are ways to secure your holds that are not taught in the average schools....its surprising how few people can apply a PROPER full nelson (Its actually a strangle) ....much less understand how to properly strangle someone to elicit the proper response from his friends

[Sagacious Lu]

Sagacious, you should just go back a couple of pages. Its pretty much spelled out there.

Yeah, I read the post but it didn't make any sense, so I started asking questions. If you lock up a strangle hold you immobilize yourself and both of your hands are busy maintaining it. While you're busy trying to hold onto that your hostage's buddies are going to bury you if they're even a little serious about hurting you. They'll be done with you long before you have time to choke a person out. Sorry Boar, I always enjoy your posts but so far this idea is a loser.

[Tom Yum]

Many don't but most do. I'd go as far to say that 95% do fall into that category. Most MMA fighters are jacks of all trades and masters of none. The ones that don't fit that description are the exception. BJJ players, wrestlers and kickboxers. The rest are just guys who learn toughman level boxing, low muay thai kicks and rudimentary bjj skills. Only the guys who came in with skills that they've practiced for years are power players in MMA. Crocop. Fedor. Nogueira. But keep in mind that these guys are all TMA's. Years in the development of there skills. No crash courses in what they've mastered.
.

Frank Shamrock and Tito Ortiz are examples of guys who learned MMA without other arts in their backgrounds and have done exceptionally well.

Bas Rutten was a karate guy and bouncer before he got into Pankration and MMA.

[Tant01]

Tracheostomy tube??? What's THAT?

... If you lock up a strangle hold you immobilize yourself and both of your hands are busy maintaining it. While you're busy trying to hold onto that your hostage's buddies are going to bury you if they're even a little serious about hurting you. They'll be done with you long before you have time to choke a person out. Sorry Boar, I always enjoy your posts but so far this idea is a loser.

You might THINK that, huh? It only takes a moment to CRUSH a trachea...Granted your sport version of a strangle is nice and gentle, works fast enough for a player (to tap out) and requires BOTH arms to "lock it up" but trust me here, the trachea will STAY damaged long after they let go of you. It can be crushed with the forearm or a ridge hand strike or a "judo" chop. No need to hang on to it. Unless you need a shield from his buddies... But don't take my word on it. You might want to brush up on the procedures for a quick tracheostomy if you attempt this on your friends. First aid to save their life is important to know, don't you think? (It's actually a surgical procedure and should only be performed by a qualified surgeon)

Play NICE!!! LOL