Chokes for self-defense

[Sagacious Lu]

What do you guys think of chokes for self-defense situations? It really depends on the situation but personally I don't think they're very practical on the street. For one thing it's going to take some time and effort to lock it up, and once you do lock it up it takes time to work. While you're applying it you're completely vulnerable to everyone but your opponent. What really bothers me about them though is the fact that it looks like you're killing the guy to everyone else in the area. That means that some good samaritan type that has nothing to do with the fight might bash you over the head just to save the life of the guy you're choking. What are your thoughts?

[Tom Yum]

If you're talking about a street SD situation, what you've said makes sense. If you've got an intruder to your home and you're forced into a close struggle, a choke might seem ideal.

You seem to be about an average sized guy seeing that you weigh 160 something. You were mentioning what bystanders might think - If you slapped that choke on someone who was larger, looked more aggressive it might look less threatening than someone who was a 130 lber.

Good thinking.

[Garland]

I almost ALWAYS end up there, unless I knock the other person out. Against somebody who doesn't know anything...it's a really easy thing to get, but I worry about it because I don't know if I might **** up and really hurt them (paralyse them or crush something vital) especially since you almost HAVE to do a short choke (over the windpipe) to scare them or go all the way with an artery choke. People will...even bystanders...get involved when you choke somebody...no doubt about it.

In a true SD situation...I wouldn't care about taking out somebodies throat...but that's not the case 99% of the time. If it's just some jackass freaking out, I'd rather not hurt them too bad...just calm them down a bit. Maybe even beat them to a pulp. But not kill them...and with chokes...you HAVE to be somewhat careful, especially if you don't know what you're doing, or you've got that adrenaline pump...you have to be very clear and conscious of what it is your doing, why, and what/how the people (if any) around will respond.

I.E. a harder one to get, but more humane is the triangle. They can slam you once you get it sunk on concrete...but from here you can also snap their arm if you're worried about accidentily putting them into a permanent sleep.

[Gunjin]

I’ve never had to apply a choke in SD or any other real life situation but if I had to, I guess it would depend on the situation.

One on one and if the opportunity was there I’d probably go for it. Then again, if there were spectators you really do have to watch out for the good samaritan. As mentioned they may intervene thinking that you are trying to kill the guy.

One on many, me being the one, probably not because as you stated it leaves you vulnerable to everyone else.

Group on group, again if the opportunity were there I would attempt it, only to take one ‘bad guy’ out of the fight and move on to the next.

Some things to keep in mind about chokes: An air choke takes like 2-3 minutes to render someone unconscious whereas a blood choke only takes 8-13 seconds. In the heat of the moment it may be hard to apply a technique properly while the adrenaline is pumping, but where seconds count, a blood choke is ideal. Also an air choke has the potential for serious damage to the trachea which may not be what you are looking for. I’ve also heard, (maybe someone can verify) that a strike to the side of the neck can cause the same effects as a blood choke and knock someone out. This may be a better option than a choke all together….

[blitz]

What do you guys think of chokes for self-defense situations? It really depends on the situation but personally I don't think they're very practical on the street. For one thing it's going to take some time and effort to lock it up, and once you do lock it up it takes time to work. While you're applying it you're completely vulnerable to everyone but your opponent. What really bothers me about them though is the fact that it looks like you're killing the guy to everyone else in the area. That means that some good samaritan type that has nothing to do with the fight might bash you over the head just to save the life of the guy you're choking. What are your thoughts?

I think chokes are some of the most useful tools from grappling for seld defense. Most of the moves are quite easy to do and you probably won't hurt yourself while doing it.

It takes time and effort locking it up? Come on man, the average street fight doesn't involve people who are expecting a choke, and a few punches can make an opening, it takes absolutely no effort to do either, it's one of the easiest things to do.

Chokes take about 10 seconds to get a guy to sleep, hell even in BJJ class when someone chokes me for 2 seconds and I tap I feel a little bit dizzy, you don't have to keep the choke, just make them dizzy or something then continue what you are doing. You don't have to slap it on your opponent for a minute, if people will notice and come and interfere it will usually take a couple of seconds which is enough time for you to make him dizzy or put him to sleep. As for killing? Why kill when you can just put him to sleep and get the hell out of the situation, if you don't know when he's going to get choked out just put it on for a few seconds and switch to something else.

Sure some people might interfere but they usually pull you off or don't cause enough damage to actually hurt you that much, just enough to get you off of the guy.

[Sagacious Lu]

It takes time and effort locking it up? Come on man, the average street fight doesn't involve people who are expecting a choke,

You're underestimating your opponent here. If it's really a self-defense issue predators don't attack unless they have a good reason to think they have an advantage. Isn't it better to be prepared for the worst, rather than hope that the guy that wants to hurt you is a chump?

Sure some people might interfere but they usually pull you off or don't cause enough damage to actually hurt you that much, just enough to get you off of the guy.

Usually? That means that while your busy waiting your 10 seconds (which is a huge amount of time) you're gambling that the guy doesn't have friends that will start pounding you, or hit you with a brick, or stab you. Hell, it doesn't even have to be someone that knows the guy, a complete stranger might put your lights out because you're killing the guy- you can't expect people to think you'll just let go. Not only are you completely helpless and vulnerable for an extended period of time, you're attracting the kind of attention that makes strangers get involved. I think using a choke in a public place is more likely to create problems than solve them.

[pathoftheninja]

well lets look at it this way. not to be negitive or anything but if the guy has friends with bricks and knives.... your going to die unless you run

[medic06]

You're underestimating your opponent here. If it's really a self-defense issue predators don't attack unless they have a good reason to think they have an advantage. Isn't it better to be prepared for the worst, rather than hope that the guy that wants to hurt you is a chump?




Usually? That means that while your busy waiting your 10 seconds (which is a huge amount of time) you're gambling that the guy doesn't have friends that will start pounding you, or hit you with a brick, or stab you. Hell, it doesn't even have to be someone that knows the guy, a complete stranger might put your lights out because you're killing the guy- you can't expect people to think you'll just let go. Not only are you completely helpless and vulnerable for an extended period of time, you're attracting the kind of attention that makes strangers get involved. I think using a choke in a public place is more likely to create problems than solve them.

The way I see it, if I get down to chokes to end the fight then I screwed up royally somewhere in the beginning of the fight.

[SamuraiGuy]

Eh, Garland.

Slam you on the concrete?

Triangles 101 buddy....

If you have their right arm on the inside of the legs, underhook the opposite leg once you have the triangle sunk. It makes it almost impossible for them to slam you and actually increases the "tightness" of the choke.

A perfect example of this, albeit a MMA fight, is Yves Edwards last fight, he tries to slam the other guy while in the triangle and his opponent (gah should remember this, I'm canadian, I know hes on team thompkins, and a natural 145 pounder, but not his name) simply under hooks the leg and finishes him.

For the opposite see Rampage vs Arona.. hehe.

[Gunjin]

The way I see it, if I get down to chokes to end the fight then I screwed up royally somewhere in the beginning of the fight.

Not necessarly, say the aggressor throws a right cross and you immeditely slip in underneath for a side choke. Your right forearm goes up against the left side of his neck. Radial bone on his sternocliedomastoid (neck muscle) and your right shoulder is under his right armpit. Clasp hands and squeezing your forearm and shoulder together. You choke him out with your forearm and his own shoulder when applying this side choke.

Or typical fight starter: The aggresor goes for the two handed chest shove pushing you back. As he reaches up to shove, you side step immediatley...how can I say...think Kali's female triangle...move forward at a diagnol angle to the opponent, slapping down his two arms with yours and slip in for a rear choke. If you go to your left, then your right arm should be going up to almost close line him and set up the rear choke. If you go to his right your left arm should be setting up the choke.

Can't really describe it well but I remember practising that one a lot one day in a kali class when a student asked how to defend against someone pushing you. This probably has nothing to do with kali but it turned into a little SD session.

These scenerios are just options. We can play the what if game all day. I do agree though, if the situation cannot be defused right away, or ended quicky in the beginning and you're resorting to chokes, then yes something may be wrong...

[medic06]

Still wouldn't be my first choice. I like to end things quickly but if I have a choke presented to me that easily then I'll take it

[ck5]

Most choke holds are a failure. If someone has the basics in wrestling they can worm out of nearly all choke holds. I have yet to find anyone that can put me in a choke hold I can't get out of, and I'm not even a wrestler!

[Garland]

Most choke holds are a failure. If someone has the basics in wrestling they can worm out of nearly all choke holds. I have yet to find anyone that can put me in a choke hold I can't get out of, and I'm not even a wrestler!

you must be good at picking fights with people who don't know how to apply them. In which case...it's a headlock, not a choke.

[ck5]

I don't pick fights, Garland.

[Garland]

I don't pick fights, Garland.

Then whoever you are training chokes with is cheating you by not applying them properly.