Which grappling art should I do?

[mellow]

This ignorant old song comes up again and again from the 'theory' crowd.

Of course! We all know that when two people are rolling around on the ground their friends aren't allowed to interfere. That wouldn't be fair at all.

[USArmyBJJ]

Of course! We all know that when two people are rolling around on the ground their friends aren't allowed to interfere. That wouldn't be fair at all.

I'm not sure that anyone is necessarily arguing that grappling is "better" than stand-up for fighting multiple people. Maybe some are, but I don't think so. I think what people are saying is two-fold:

1) A grappling base will give you a better chance of avoiding a grappling situation because, in addition to learning takedowns and ground grappling, you also learn defenses against takedowns and ground grappling. And, you've been in the situation enough to have a better chance of enacting those defenses. I've never been in a fight with multiple opponents - I have no desire to ever be in one. But I think that if I were wanting to hurt someone with my buddies there, the first thing I'd want to do is take them down to the ground where I and my friends can put a hurting on them. A person who has studied grappling has a better shot at avoiding that, I would think.

2) It is incumbent on those claiming that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents to prove that their particular tactics for fighting multiple opponents are necessarily better or even effective at all. I will willingly concede that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents. However, I would also argue that stand-up is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents. If you're fighting multiple opponents without a weapon, you are at an extreme disadvantage, and the chances of you winning are minimal at best. This is not to say that it can't happen - just that it's unlikely. I have seen a couple of videos on Youtube of boxers taking out more than one opponent, but I consider that the exception rather than the rule. Is there any evidence that TMA and/or RBSD fare any better?

[jubaji]

this means YOU

Of course! We all know that when two people are rolling around on the ground their friends aren't allowed to interfere. That wouldn't be fair at all.

Super funny, but 'standup striker' folks seriously operate from this assumption on their side.

[mellow]

Super funny, but 'standup striker' folks seriously operate from this assumption on their side.

I think it's dangerous to assume anything in something as random as violent confrontation. It sucks to fight multiple opponents any way you cut it.. You are a shade closer to being able to cut and run when you are on your feet though. Of course the grappler doesn't neccessarily have to go to the ground either

[TTEscrima]

Of course! We all know that when two people are rolling around on the ground their friends aren't allowed to interfere. That wouldn't be fair at all.

Yes yes, it would be quite unsportsmanlike behavior.

[TTEscrima]

2) It is incumbent on those claiming that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents to prove that their particular tactics for fighting multiple opponents are necessarily better

The fact that you're demanding "proof" that you're better off on your feet than on the ground against multiple opponents says it all.

[USArmyBJJ]

The fact that you're demanding "proof" that you're better off on your feet than on the ground against multiple opponents says it all.

You're right. Proof is something we generally try to avoid in these debates. Perhaps you should try to avoid mischaracterizing other people's posts? Just a thought.

[TTEscrima]

You're right. Proof is something we generally try to avoid in these debates. Perhaps you should try to avoid mischaracterizing other people's posts? Just a thought.

Guess you realized just how stupid you sounded eh?

[USArmyBJJ]

Guess you realized just how stupid you sounded eh?

I realized how bad your reading comprehension is. I never said that I needed proof that you're better off on your feet than on the ground. In fact, the main argument I made was that a grappler is more likely to be able to avoid going to the ground. Please re-read the post and see how incorrect you are.

[jubaji]

I'm sorry you're getting a crash course in TTExcrement's emotional problems.

[USArmyBJJ]

I'm sorry you're getting a crash course in TTExcrement's emotional problems.

Yes, it's clear that s/he doesn't understand that "grappling" is not synonymous with "ground fighting." It's funny how the most ignorant people are also the most sure of themselves.

[jubaji]

He scores very high on both counts!

[kingoftheforest]

Yes, it's clear that s/he doesn't understand that "grappling" is not synonymous with "ground fighting." It's funny how the most ignorant people are also the most sure of themselves.

Please enlighten us as to what the main objective of a standing grapple is. To my knowledge it is to place your opponent on the ground.

Ergo it is synonymous with ground fighting. I personally have never seen an altercation in the ring or in the street that started with standing grappling and didn't end on the ground.

[TTEscrima]

I realized how bad your reading comprehension is. I never said that I needed proof that you're better off on your feet than on the ground. In fact, the main argument I made was that a grappler is more likely to be able to avoid going to the ground. Please re-read the post and see how incorrect you are.

My reading comprehension is fine, you just can't face the reality of your own position.

2) It is incumbent on those claiming that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents to prove that their particular tactics for fighting multiple opponents are necessarily better

Its fairly clear you're asking for us to explain why it's better to stay on our feet than go to the ground against multiple opponents. Anyone who would ask that question has obviously never been in an actual fight against one person much less multiple opponents. ANYONE who has grappled HAS to admit that often times you get tangled up and wind up on the ground with your opponent. Only a fool would deny that grappling increases the likelihood of winding up on the ground, and only a fool would argue the ground is a good place to be against multiple opponents, ANY techniques or style can cause you to find yourself on the ground, but grappling definitely increases those chances. BTW, the reason I emphasized going to the ground is because attempting to grapple multiple opponents virtually assures you're going to be on the ground.


Are you capable of understanding what YOU posted?

2) It is incumbent on those claiming that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents to prove that their particular tactics for fighting multiple opponents are necessarily better

If you can remember posting that little gem lets analyze it.


It is incumbent (merriam-webster dictionary defines incumbent as one that occupies a particular position or place) on those claiming that grappling is ineffective for fighting multiple opponents to PROVE (merriam-webster dictionary defines prove as a verb used to to establish the existence, truth, or validity of) that their particular tactics for fighting multiple opponents are necessarily BETTER (merriam-webster dictionary defines BETTER as: more advantageous or effective <a better solution>)


Then you come back with

You're right. Proof is something we generally try to avoid in these debates. Perhaps you should try to avoid mischaracterizing other people's posts? Just a thought.

And yet you said it was incumbent on us to prove..., but now you're accusing me of "mischaracterizing" your post? ROFLMAO


Grappling is a form of embracing JR, whether you remain standing or not you are attempting to control an opponent by placing placing your hands upon him, you actually seem to need for someone to prove that grappling multiple opponents is less effective than other means of dealing with them...well, how many people can you grapple at the same time? Can you grapple more people at once than you can run from? I think not...Can you grapple more people at once than you can strike? I think not, can you evade more people at once while grappling than when not grappling? I think not...Can you watch multiple opponents for weapons more effectively when grappling than other times? I think not...Can you create distance from multiple opponents more effectively when the weapon appears when grappling? I think not...

[jubaji]

Please enlighten us as to what the main objective of a standing grapple is. To my knowledge it is to place your opponent on the ground.

Ergo it is synonymous with ground fighting.

Neverending pissing contest aside, this just isn't logical.