a touchy subject

[EmptyneSs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060521/ap_on_re_us/fort_lewis_killing

so i was reading this story about a soldier who killed his wife. this guy had seen action in iraq, and when he returned he ended up stabbing his wife like over 70 times and using a meat cleaver on her. real gruesome. many people believe this was a result of the post traumatic stress disorder he suffers from, after being wounded in combat in iraq.

there is no doubt that we are going to be seeing more and more of these incidencts occuring as the war drags on. we are having many people returining to america with deep emotional problems as a result of things they saw or did over there. are any of you guys worried about this at all? we dont really hear much about this issue, but man i dont want to be there when some dude goes postal because of the sever mental wounds that have been inflicted on him when he was fighting house to house in the hell that is bagdad iraq. this guy in the article went nuts and stabbed his own wife over 70 times. imagine if he had lost it at a different location like a crowded mall or grocery store or had a deadlier weapon in his possesion at the time? what then? i think this is a real problem some of us are going to encounter in the future

i know a guy who is currently messing around with a girl whos boyfriend is a marine in iraq. i fear greatly for this guy. you think that marine who has just survived a tour of combat in one of the most godforsaken places on earth is going to be happy when he gets back and finds his slut gf cheating on him with some douchebag? i dont think so.....

[Tant01]

Isolated incidents of combat soldiers going off like this tend to get more press than the strung out junkies that do the same vile crap.

It's not like civilian husbands (or wives) don't do it too... Just another tactic of liberal news to make the whole thing stink even more.

[Sagacious Lu]

Post traumatic stress disorder is very nasty business. It's worth noting that it doesn't only effect soldiers; anyone that goes through extreme circumstances is likely to experience it to some degree. I remember reading that prostitutes actually get it more often than soldiers. Certainly law enforcement officers and gangsters are also subject to it. From what I remember torturers frequently suffer from it as well. It isn't any excuse for criminal behavior but my heart goes out to anyone that suffers from it because they served our country.

[nutter]

It's not like civilian husbands (or wives) don't do it too... Just another tactic of liberal news to make the whole thing stink even more.

You're right mate; that is all just part of a big liberal conspiracy innit.

yeah I think this is a real problem. People who join the army tend to be from the least educated, least bright and least privileged element of society so it’s no wonder this sort of thing happens. A lot of them are immature when they go in so they are become institutionalized and socially challenged in normal society. Add to that cocktail of inferiority that they are taught to kill people and then exposed to the horrors of the Iraq or Afghanistan invasions, and it’s a timebomb waiting to happen innit. I’m glad I don’t live next to any Iraq vets right.

[nutter]

From what I remember torturers frequently suffer from it as well. It isn't any excuse for criminal behavior but my heart goes out to anyone that suffers from it because they served our country.

What, including those who abused Iraqi prisoners mate?

[Sagacious Lu]

What, including those who abused Iraqi prisoners mate?

I couldn't say, but I'm sure the uncle that fondled you as a small child wakes up screaming on a regular basis.

[nutter]

I couldn't say, but I'm sure the uncle that fondled you as a small child wakes up screaming on a regular basis.

Which one mate?

[Sagacious Lu]

All of them I'm sure

[Tom Yum]

yeah I think this is a real problem. People who join the army tend to be from the least educated, least bright and least privileged element of society so it’s no wonder this sort of thing happens. A lot of them are immature when they go in so they become institutionalized and socially challenged in normal society. .

I think Prince Harry joined the British Army if I'm not mistaken. Immature? I don't know. Socially challenged? Probably not, mate.

A Wall-street Journalist for 9 years decided to join the Marines.

[nutter]

I think Prince Harry joined the British Army if I'm not mistaken. Immature? I don't know. Socially challenged? Probably not, mate.

A Wall-street Journalist for 9 years decided to join the Marines.

Prince Harry joined as an officer right mate. There is always exceptions granted right, that goes without saying, but if you were to do a study of the average grades in an infantry unit and compare it to the national average, you know where it'd stand.

[Tom Yum]

Prince Harry joined as an officer right mate. sure there are exceptions, but if you were to do a study of the average grades in an infantry unit and compare it to the national average...

Infantry grades would be well above the national average if you are testing in terms of physical fitness, land navigation and firing range - skills required for the infantryman in the Army.

My understanding is that infantryman tend to score sub 300 level and even higher for the army physical fitness test. What does that mean in terms of real-world use? It means that these guys have enough discipline to take care of their bodies. Discipline carrys over into different parts of one's life.

Try using a .40 caliber pistol or higher to hit a target 25 meters away. You quickly find out that firing a pistol or a rifle is a skill that requires practice. It could be a life saver, in the sense that the enemy is killed and the person you know is saved. Whether its you personally or through the service of a police officer.

Not everyone can or wants to do calculus or more advanced subjects. They are greatly appreciated when they make something usefull and I'd even argue that they are beautiful when looked at closely (uh, oh I'm going to get made fun of again....).

School grades can sway depending on the quality of instruction received and on the personal life of a student. Take a highschool student with a strugling single parent household, with no guidance. Chances are that he/she may have some difficulty motivating themself to make good grades. It could have nothing to do with intellectual capacity and everything to do with the student's personal life - parent/family difficulties, passing of a relative, breaking up with girlfriend/boyfriend.

If they choose to enter the military and try to learn all the lessons they can to be successfull, they might make great college students, business owners, police officers, medics, electricians etc.

[nutter]

Infantry grades would be well above the national average if you are testing in terms of physical fitness, land navigation and firing range - skills required for the infantryman in the Army.

My understanding is that infantryman tend to score sub 300 level and even higher for the army physical fitness test. What does that mean in terms of real-world use? It means that these guys have enough discipline to take care of their bodies. Discipline carrys over into different parts of one's life.

Try using a .40 caliber pistol or higher to hit a target 25 meters away. You quickly find out that firing a pistol or a rifle is a skill that requires practice. It could be a life saver, in the sense that the enemy is killed and the person you know is saved. Whether its you personally or through the service of a police officer.

Not everyone can or wants to do calculus or more advanced subjects. They are greatly appreciated when they make something usefull and I'd even argue that they are beautiful when looked at closely (uh, oh I'm going to get made fun of again....).

School grades can sway depending on the quality of instruction received and on the personal life of a student. Take a highschool student with a strugling single parent household, with no guidance. Chances are that he/she may have some difficulty motivating themself to make good grades. It may have nothing to do with intellectual capacity.

If they choose to enter the military and try to learn all the lessons they can to be successfull, they might make great college students, business owners, police officers, medics, electricians etc.

You are using stuff like fitness because you know the education standards and intelligence comments are basically valid right mate. You may think being better at shooting people makes them better people, but that sort of just underlines the whole point behind this thread right.

[Tom Yum]

You are using stuff like fitness because you know the education standards and intelligence comments are basically valid right mate. You may think being better at shooting people makes them better people, but that sort of just underlines the whole point behind this thread right.

No, the argument was not that shooting makes better people, rather shooting makes for a better soldier. Self-discipline makes for a better person.

Shooting is a skill, just like reading comprehension, writing and arithmetic.

Personally, I think academic learning is a good thing and am a strong supporter of higher education. But learning of any kind should never cease.

While I love science it only gives me a conceptual knowledge of energy transfer from chemical --> expansion + heat (re-used during the winter) ---> rotation + linear motion and an infitinite number of subjects from viscosity, to surface behavior, rust etc. I might be able to pick one of these sub-topics, conduct some fascinating and usefull research after years of disciplined learning and research and improve one aspect of the engine.

Can you fix your own engine?

Book learning isn't the only kind of learning. Just because someone has lower scores doesn't mean that they lack important skills or the ability to be successfull.

[nutter]

I don't really see to what aim you are saying all this mate. Are you disagreeing that by and large soldiers are recruited from the least priverlaged/educated element of society mate?

[Tant01]

Good shot, good person?

No, the argument was not that shooting makes better people, rather shooting makes for a better soldier. Self-discipline makes for a better person.

Shooting is a skill, just like reading comprehension, writing and arithmetic.

Personally, I think academic learning is a good thing. But learning of any kind should never cease.

.......

Tom Yum... Here's a little commentary from a world class shootist. You may have heard of him. His name is Col. Jeff Cooper.

"Over the years I have developed the notion that there is a definite connection between marksmanship and morality. A good shot is nearly always a good man, and conversely the bad guys usually cannot shoot for sour owl jowls. This proposition cannot be proven, of course, but I think it has to do with the fact that the essence of good marksmanship is self-control, and it seems pretty clear that self-control is the foundation of good morals. Hurray for our side!"