Street fighting: Muay Thai or Wing Chun

[silverfox79]

The reason why I ask this is because I have a friend who has been practicing wing chun for several years. He tells he aways knocks down muay thai fighters that he knows. He says since wing chun deals with the center line strategy of fighting, he keeps the muay thai fighters off balance and goes in for the kill (a strike to the head). Which martial art is more efficient in the street: Muay Thai or Wing Chun. Is learning both of these skills worthwile or just stick with muay thai?

[bigred389]

Is learning both of these skills worthwile or just stick with muay thai?

Cross training is almost always beneficial.

If nothing else, you'll at least get a good sense of what the opposition will be capable of/favor.

[DeSousa]

still as one say "if your jack of all trades you will master none ... " or something as if you try to learn everything you probably wont learn anything

[m_calingo]

Ultimately, it comes down to the fighter, doesn't it?

If you ask the Muay Thai guy, he'll say Muay Thai, and the Wing Chung guy will say Wing Chun. There is no doubt that MT is pretty brutal, whereas Bruce Lee himself picked Wing Chun as a no-nonsense form of gung fu.

I'd say try 'em both, then see which way you want to go.

[white devil]

great

this forum has matured alot..i was sure everyone here was gonna bash traditional arts again and tell the newbie to go with muay thai..this is great.

[Little Apple]

heh, I agree, good job guys.

I also agree that cross training is good, it will give you a better understanding of motion if nothing else. And really there is rarely a final "best" because everything is situational. What's better, a left or a right? It depends on what's going on, where you are, and which you're better at.

[chalambok]

Well, I guess I will the the first to begin the bashing

lol...not really. But, just let me state for the record that while I have met many Wing Chun people who supplement themselves by learning muay Thai, I have met no Thai boxers who feel the need to learn Wing Chun. I really cannot guess the reason for this, and am only speculating when I say it might be because traditional Thai boxing classes are very time consumptive. I personally think the 2 are tailor made to work together. Just think, Wing Chun has much forward pressure (maybe moreso nowadays after the experiences of Bruce Lee and his influence), similar to that Thai boxers pick up by holding the pads. As far as being able to knock down people, my suspicions are that Thai boxers are notoriously open up the middle so if your friend truly is doing this then the Thai boxers haven't been working on their defense. Again, this is pure speculation on my part, and muay Thai is more about doing what you want and not letting the other person dictate your actions. All this is just a roundabout way of saying I do believe you can use Wing Chun to knock a Thai boxer down; I do it consistently with new Krabi-Krabong students. Maybe it is because they are used to dealing with force coming from a lower angle of attack (the legs) so their balance can be taken by force to the upper body/head region. But getting up off the street when you get punched in the body or head (but NOT knocked out, which is a completely different debate) and getting back into the fight is much more easy than getting up after getting knocked down by a kick to the leg. So my opinion is muay Thai is more street effective quicker, being truly viable after only a few months of dedicated study. I think Wing Chun requires a longer study period to consistently make it work. Sorry to be so wordy, I truly want to come down squarely in the middle because both are old, traditional martial arts that have deservedly earned their place.

[sportmuaythai]

I used to be a very strong supporter of MT, but that was because I had very good trainers. I have come to realize that it's most important to have trainer who you could connect to, and that you're happy with your training. I don't reccommend cross training, since it could take ages to become proficient. However, I do reccommend trying out for both M arts, and see which one you like better. Give both arts a little time, then dump the lesser one.

[Thai Bri]

My turn! My turn!

I have trained in both. One was a major step forwards for me. After studying other arts, entering the club and sparring for the first time with those guys really showed me how ineffective my other training had been. The other was Wing Chun.

Not style bashing, merely the truth.

By the way, your mysterious friend should be able to clean up in Thai/Kick Boxing tournaments with these fine centre line skills! But he probably won't because, you guessed it, he is talking out of his anus.

[theprophet]

I think certain parts of the Wing Chun training could definitely help your Muay Thai. Sticky hands (CHi Sao) for example would be great for the MT clinch.


I am completely dedicated to MT training right now, but I would love to get back into some Wing Chun once I am happy with my MT skills. I have done some Arnis, Kempo and Wing Chun.... my fav of those 3 would have to be the Wing Chun. It is a smaller toolbox than alot of TCMA systems, only 3 forms! It can be mastered in a much shorter time than alot of other TCMA styles, to my understanding it was designed that way. And it can be practiced well into old age, I believe Grandmaster Yip Man was 81 when he passed and he was still practicing everyday.

[Shard]

Take MT first, if you feel a need to advance your game, then go for WC.

The problem i see with most TMAs like, WC is this. They like to skip to the fancy stuff without covering the bascis adquetly. Things like Chi sao, do work. I'm not arguing with that. Just that WC doesn't properly cover the aspect of getting into the range where Chi Sao is supposed to work.
Wing Chun is a very specialised system. It foucses on only one aspect of stand up fighting. The Clinch Range. The place where elbows and knees work the best.
MY conclusion is this. Work on your elbows and knees in MT and then work on the more technical aspects in Wing Chun.

[Thai Bri]

What evidence is there that Chi Sao works? Which MMA fighter has used it to good effect? Now I know that MMA is a "sport", and that WC is not. But that particular skill should still easily transfer. It isn't braking any rules. But it doesn't, coz it only works when both participants are doing it with each other and not bothering with other things.

As for it being good in a Thai clinch? How is that? A Thai clinch has the torsos very close together, often touching. Chi Sao is always done with the combatants almost at arms length. In fact they stay that way when they train with each other. That is the way they do things.... That is one of the reasons they just ain't prepared for the guy who crashes right in, all close up and personal.

Saying that Chi Sao works in a Thai clinch is a bit like saying that jumping kicks work in ground grappling.

[theprophet]

As for it being good in a Thai clinch? How is that?

Chi Sao teaches you to feel the movement of your opponents arms (hands) and deal with it accordingly, how would this not be helpful in the MT clinch? Nobody is saying try to do Chi Sao (exactly how WC guys do it with each other) in the MT clinch it's the way to go!! that's absurd. But, I'm sure you can apply the philosophy within Chi Sao to the clinch or maybe even to get better hand positioning when going into the clinch.

It is a sensativity drill. That's exactly what it does, it makes you more sensative to any movement or changes in direction when your arms (hands) are in contact with your opponents. IMHO that can't be a bad thing.

[Thai Bri]

How can a drill practiced almost at arms length help you when the other guy has you gripped round the neck and is shoving powerful knees into your balls?

I reckon we may have one of those "chi sao also helps your grappling skills" eedjuts on the line....... EEEEEE AWWWWWWWW!

You cannonly "apply the philosophy" if you train to do it. It won't magically happen. Yes, there is a sensitivity to movement to be developed within the Thai Clinch. But you've got to practice the Thai Clinch to get it.

[darrianation]

Like the way Thai Bri explains it.

I have never been impressed with the wing chun (or many TMAs for that matter especially ones like WC) training methods. At least with sport methods i.e. boxing, MT, wrestling, BJJ, MMA, etc. You have the driving pressures that are in direct contex to the objective function. This will relate better than the fragile training methods of most TMAs in a street encounter where you will have to apply your skills full force to a fully resisting opponent.