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aweful video. four homies just hanging out when their lives are turned upsidedown in an instant.
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well i think there is no way when your on that kind of sitution besides do what the mugger whants ... or if your 200% sure that you can control him in a flash light... if you dont do nothing you probably just get mugged and non phisical damage is done
... there are some brasilian ppl living upstairs
i dont have a problem realy with brasilians realy like a phobie or something but there are always new ppl coming up and down the stairs .... and i dont fell realy secure but nothing i can do ....Comment
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Fucked up shit...Comment
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Wow, I would love to respond more to this but I don’t have the time right now. A little training could have gone a long way here. I don’t out and out disagree with going for the gun but they did a poor job of controlling it. Instead of trying to punch the assailant (as a couple are doing) they all should have gotten on his gun arm and the gun itself, gripping it around the cylinder keeping it from progressing forward. And they should have kept him pinned to the wall. But who knows maybe that would have been successful maybe not. This does show how difficult performing a disarm can be against a fully resisting opponent. Still, a terrible tragedy.Comment
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Originally posted by stabbychickThanks for the vid. I have seen it posted on other sites but none of them would play for me.
Defanging the snake would have come in handy if any of them had a blade. How about limb destructions? I think they would have done better to focus on breaking and pulverizing the gun arm rather than punching him in the head. They were probably trying to knock him out. I know these guys weren't trained, I was just trying to look at the situation as a martial artist.
It's too bad they didn't shoot him once they had the gun. At least the MoFo was caught. Hopefully, some people will learn from this incident. .............
As a "martial" artist it is your responsibility to know when and how deadly force can be applied and WHEN IT CAN NOT BE LEGALLY OR MORALLY JUSTIFIED. Of course if he had been shot during the struggle... that's acceptable
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fucking retarded. I would have coughed up my cash, wallet, shoes, everything.
It was a robbery, not a hit. So long as they don't try to tie you up...and haven't shot at you yet...you're probably going to be okay.Comment
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I think we can second guess these guys all day…it’s easy to do sitting here in our comfortable chairs in relative safety. The fact is we were not there nor do we have all the sudden chemicals being dumped and rushing through our veins that they had while trying to manage fast moving problems.
My personal take is I would never recommend attempting a disarm without lots of training for that eventuality or you believed in your heart of hearts he is going to kill you anyway. Controlling the weapon is the most important part of a disarm…you can’t disarm unless you have control.
Team tactics rarely work unless you have trained (a lot) together otherwise you simply have folks getting in the way as we saw on this video.Comment
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Originally posted by stabbychick
To be honest I didn't watch the clip. My PC (IC?) is too slow!
I'm all for feinting compliance until you can deploy your own weapon with some element of surprise. Makes disarms easier if you can cut the weapon hand/arm or other target to gain some advantage. The way I read your post the victims should have shot him after they got the gun away? That's a load of trouble legally speaking...
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Originally posted by stabbychickSince you didn't get to watch the vid ...
The gun went off three times during the struggle and three of the 4 guys were shot. One critically injured, one dead, and one had a bullet graze his head. When they finally got a clear shot at him after getting the gun, he ran out the door. There wasn't time to shoot the BG anyway. And yes, I know you're not supposed to shoot someone who is running away, but what if you get the gun and he keeps fighting you? Three people had already gotten shot...
Too bad they didn't kill the BG... Sucks when best efforts fail to produce the desired result. E & E should be SOP if you're out gunned, eh?
Sometimes I'm glad I don't do vid clips...Hat's off to the brave rightous that attempted to disarm him despite the odds.
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I and all the self defense instructors and L.E.O.'s that I've known throughout the years agree with Garland; no level of martial arts or street defense proficiency justifies such a numbskull move like fighting back against a guy with a gun. If he's willing to single-handedly pull an armed robbery against four (count 'em, FOUR) large, fit men, he's probably crazy enough to shoot! Give 'im everything he wants, appease him, offer to take money out of your ATM for him, whatever! Just don't fight the gun! You can always regain or re-earn whatever he takes and eventually he'll be arrested and jailed (normally when he's least expecting it). Things ain't worth blood!
People always say; "What if I give him what he wants and he shoots me anyway?" Wrong. If he was gonna do that, he'd shoot you first then rob you. Easier that way. But guys like that actually know the difference between the differerent crimes and their subsequent penalties and are either hesitant to take it to the next level or they're not. Big difference between just plain old armed robbery and attempted murder, or even manslaughter.Comment
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I did make a distinction...if they try to get you into a car, or if they try to get you on your knees, or tie you up...fight back.Originally posted by osopardo
If your on your knees they'll put a slug behind your brain.
If they want to tie you up, and it's highly plausible they may torture, rape, then kill you.
If they try to get you in the car, probably the same...drive you out someplace to dump your assout and cover you in quick lyme.
There are sadists out there that will kill you after taking your shit. There is a difference between a crackhead trying to get some cash with an itchy trigger finger who can be sated by handing over your shit, and a true sick **** who'd just be getting started at that point.Comment
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Yeah, I agree, if anybody tries to get me in a vehicle I will fight them right there before being transported in a soundproof metal box to some deserted secondary location so they can do terrible things to me. And same with being tied up, I want my hands free.... But I won't say always... I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where I *would* get in a car... Any situation in which me dying a slow, painful and tortorous death would be considered a better option than the alternative... Maybe if I had children with me and they said if they had me that I could leave the children behind, something like that.
I agree though, some people will take your shit and then f*** you up afterwards anyway. In fact, I've heard a lot of stories that went something like this
BG: Give me your wallet.
GG: (hands over wallet)
BG: Get in the car.
This is a slightly different situation but there HAVE been situations where people have been shot even after a robbery. They say to treat the BG like you would a wild animal: no sudden movements, don't look 'em in the eye, stuff like that.
Having an emergency plan at work that you drill and practice is a good idea... sadly, most of 'em will send you to crappy seminars--see http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=18624 .
I just wonder how well you can tell whether the BG just wants the money or not, what you can detect while the adrenaline is surging through you. I just wish there was an easy way... you know, like I can tell if someone's a groundfighter by whether they're pinning me down by my shoulders or my waste, how can I tell if the BG is gonna shoot. They say instinct kicks in but who can discern between instinct, fear/adrenaline, etc. in a zero sum situation?Comment
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