armed robbery 4 vs 1

[Tant01]

What did the BG do when the victim had the gun? Ass and elbows BAYBEE. Nothin but my backside!!! You can't say what your brain will be thinking when you're on the business end of some idiot's pea shooter. Chances are compliance might be as good as anything. And that's the LAST thing I'd say to do. Use your head! I got in trouble one time when my daughter told her friends about a little scenario we played. Her friend told a teacher who promptly reported my ass to the authorities.

The night before I asked my daughter "What do you do if someone is holding a gun to your head?" (I had a "prop") the answer was "Anything they tell you to do"... The sheriff thought my training method was a bit extreme but didn't arrest me for "endangerment"

[treelizard]

Do tell...

[BoarSpear]

What did the BG do when the victim had the gun? Ass and elbows BAYBEE. Nothin but my backside!!! You can't say what your brain will be thinking when you're on the business end of some idiot's pea shooter. Chances are compliance might be as good as anything. And that's the LAST thing I'd say to do. Use your head! I got in trouble one time when my daughter told her friends about a little scenario we played. Her friend told a teacher who promptly reported my ass to the authorities.

The night before I asked my daughter "What do you do if someone is holding a gun to your head?" (I had a "prop") the answer was "Anything they tell you to do"... The sheriff thought my training method was a bit extreme but didn't arrest me for "endangerment"

We really must get together sometime.

Remember the old posters from Millington?...'Be a Lert"..."Lerts live longer" I wish I had some of those today, some of them were funny as hell.

[Garland]

Yeah, I agree, if anybody tries to get me in a vehicle I will fight them right there before being transported in a soundproof metal box to some deserted secondary location so they can do terrible things to me. And same with being tied up, I want my hands free.... But I won't say always... I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where I *would* get in a car... Any situation in which me dying a slow, painful and tortorous death would be considered a better option than the alternative.

There's a disturbing thought. Now...just for the sake of plunging into worst case scenarios...what do you do when you're there?

What sort of thing do you do when you aren't able to escape or fight back with your body, and are pinioned or incapacitated???

Smile at them?
Laugh in their faces?
Glare noiselessly?

What do they teach people in the military? What can we learn from POW's?
How do you train that type of tencious fighting spirit? I know the SAS uses high pitched noises, and stress positions to train people to fight against interrogations...would this stuff work for straight up torture?

[Garland]

I don't know what I meant by "work"...since the whole scenario is based upon the assumption that you're already fucked...maybe a last "jab" at the person who put you in that situation.

[BoarSpear]

I don't know what I meant by "work"...since the whole scenario is based upon the assumption that you're already fucked...maybe a last "jab" at the person who put you in that situation.

I kind of enjoyed Dennis Hoppers solution when he was tied in the chair with Christopher Walken kicking his ass in "True Romance"

Dont wanna be the dude in the chair in Resevoir dogs either!!


And christ on a crutch you dont wanna meet Captain Howdy!! "Strangeland"

[treelizard]

I wonder if trying to control your breathing, meditation etc. would work?

I was in a WSD class once where we practiced "coiling" (in this context doing nothing other than breathing and waiting for an opening) in situations where we couldn't fight back right away and were put into situations/positions that we found particularly scary (gun to yr back, pinned on the ground, etc. with the BG telling you exactly what he was planning on doing next) . They actually had us write how we were assaulted or what would be scariest so we could work on it. We even got to pick the weapons. And for the whole four-hour class we just worked on this, on breathing and not crying or freaking out or leaving our bodies. Since everyone in the class except one woman had been very badly assaulted it was easier said than done...

Of course we got to fight our way out in the end but shit, it was a tough class. Very draining emotionally...

Tough question!! I remember reading about Fabrizio Quattrocchi, the Italian baker turned security guard who was taken hostage near Fallujah by the Green Battalion… who was forced to dig his own grave... As terrorists held a pistol to his head he struggled to rip his hood off and screamed, “I’ll show you how an Italian dies!”

You won’t see the video of his beheading on Al Jazeera because he overcame his fear and died like a man. Heroically, I'd say.

Obviously no simulation of that would be as intense as the real thing, but I guess you do what you train.

I'm trying to practice learning how to slow down my heart rate through breathing. You don't make it happen, you watch it happen.

Ooh, interested in other responses on this... Don't hold back, people!

[Garland]

I kind of enjoyed Dennis Hoppers solution when he was tied in the chair with Christopher Walken kicking his ass in "True Romance"
Dont wanna be the dude in the chair in Resevoir dogs either!!
And christ on a crutch you dont wanna meet Captain Howdy!! "Strangeland"

Eggplant!, Ears!, "Hot for Teacher!" ???
Dee Snider is a freakin' freak.

by the way, I'm looking into doing one of those suspensions...it's supposed to be an ultra spiritual/enlightening endeavor.

[darrianation]

People always say; "What if I give him what he wants and he shoots me anyway?" Wrong. If he was gonna do that, he'd shoot you first then rob you. Easier that way. But guys like that actually know the difference between the differerent crimes and their subsequent penalties and are either hesitant to take it to the next level or they're not. Big difference between just plain old armed robbery and attempted murder, or even manslaughter.

Good points.

A good SD class should practice (role play) what criteria should be present to base a decision on before attempting disarm, run, or when to comply.

For instance, a disarm may be acceptable when there is only one assailant, he is close enough to grab without having to extend out or lunge forward. And he is asking you to go with him to a secondary location or you believe he will kill you anyway (what makes you believe that?). Or during the exchange of the wallet/money/whatever he is asking for.

Run (E&E): In one study it showed that folks who ran had a slightly less than fifty percent chance that the perp will shoot. And if he does shoot...From 3-9 feet there is a likely hood of being hit 1 in 4 shots and 50% of those who are hit are not incapacitated by their wounds (meaning 50% of the time you can continue to run). Beyond the 9 foot margin the likely hood of being hit drops dramatically. I believe at the 9-12 foot range it is 1 in 9. At 12- 20 foot it is 1 in 24, etc. (I don’t have the study sitting in front of me so this may not be perfect but I know the 3-9 feet is accurate and the rest are very close)

The question is can you out run him if decides to pursue? Running and shooting will decrees his accuracy even further but he can still catch up and place the muzzle to your back and shoot at point blank. I don't know what the stats are for this.

To increase the effectiveness off E&E you can toss your goodies in one direction while you sprint off in another. Forcing the BG to make the decision between the wallet and you.

Then there is compliance...give him your wallet and pay attention to any subtle or not so subtle cues that he may shoot you. Maybe this is a good argument to carry a drop wallet with some old or non-working credit cards and a $10 bill, etc.

What will give the lesser risks between run, figh,t or comply?

In self-defense we basically have four choices avoid, run, fight, or comply. Unless of course the bad guy takes certain options away.

[treelizard]

Good points.
Then there is compliance...give him your wallet and pay attention to any subtle or not so subtle cues that he may shoot you. Maybe this is a good argument to carry a drop wallet with some old or non-working credit cards and a $10 bill, etc.

I just have a locked drawer somewhere that has photocopies of everything I carry in my wallet and the #s to call and replacements to get.

What would be the subtle or not so subtle cues that he'd shoot you?

Only peripherally related, but I've heard that I need to verify is that there are not enough nerve centers on your back to be able to tell whether someone is holding a gun to it or just their fingers.

[treelizard]

There's a disturbing thought. Now...just for the sake of plunging into worst case scenarios...what do you do when you're there?

Garland, getting back to this question, I would just really REALLY highly recommend a book called Molecules of Emotion. Candace Pert's writing style is kind of annoying, but if you can get past that, the scientific information about neuropepties etc. and psychoneuroimmunology is just fascinating.

I'll try to write a synapsis over the next four or five days.

[osopardo]

... I'm looking into doing one of those suspensions...it's supposed to be an ultra spiritual/enlightening endeavor.

You mean, like with meat hooks on your back?
"A Man Called Horse"

You're crazy! But then again, you prolly think of that as a compliment...

[Garland]

You mean, like with meat hooks on your back?
"A Man Called Horse"

You're crazy! But then again, you prolly think of that as a compliment...

It's called the Mandan Oh Kee Pah ceremony, usually that ones done in the chest though,...and yeah...something similar to that....the more hooks, the more surface area, the less tug.

here ya go, kiddies...

http://www.bmezine.com/ritual/susp-faq.html

[osopardo]

I'm a real tough guy, but I'm too purty to scar m'self up like that. It'd be akin to vandalism of a national monument!! And, it goes against one of my top Life Rules.


Osopardo's Life Rules for Common Sense Living

1. Skydiving: Don't ever jump out of a perfectly good functioning airplane.

2. Ritual Suspension: Don't ever stick a sharp object under your skin unless the doctor says you have to.

3. Competitive Eating: Don't ever try to swallow anything bigger than your throat.

4. Binge drinking: Don't ever have more'n two beers in public. Forget the whole "designated driver" crap. Your designated driver is over on the other side of the bar working on his third mojito and tryin' to pick up the guy dressed up like a chick! You think he's gonna get you home safely?!? HA! Your best bet is to stay home, make sure you only have a specifically limited amount of booze in the house, give your neighbor the car keys and drink only what you got. Don't go out to buy more, just go to the bathroom, have a nice puke and go to bed.

5. Carnival Rides: Don't ever go for a ride on any device assembled in less than one day in the middle of a vacant lot by a bunch of itinerant drug addicts and alcoholics.

6. Drifting: It's a movie! Done with trained stunt drivers in a controlled enviroment. It ain't reality and you ain't Dim Weasel! Hell, boy! Even Vin wouldn't do it! You got no clue what it feels like to hydroplane your car sideways into a tree on a rainy night! Time slows down. You got no control. The ambulance guys will insist on immobilizing your neck. The cops will ask all sorts of embarrassing questions. The e.r. doctor will have to pick little broken bits of glass outta yer nostrils and ear canal! You'll have to get another car or have the old one repaired and that costs a lot of money 'cause your insurance company will cancel you AND raise your rates! It ain't fun, Slow yurass down!

6. Casual Sex: Don't ever have unprotected sex with a stranger. For that matter don't ever have unprotected sex with someone you know either. Actually, don't ever have protected sex either. Aww hell! just don't do it! Ever! It usually ends up bad. Trust me, you're better off taking a vow or sumthin' cause it's nothin but trubble!

more pearls to come as time permits...

[Garland]

I'm a real tough guy, but I'm too purty to scar m'self up like that. It'd be akin to vandalism of a national monument!! And, it goes against one of my top Life Rules.


Osopardo's Life Rules for Common Sense Living

1. Skydiving: Don't ever jump out of a perfectly good functioning airplane.

2. Ritual Suspension: Don't ever stick a sharp object under your skin unless the doctor says you have to.

3. Competitive Eating: Don't ever try to swallow anything bigger than your throat.

4. Binge drinking: Don't ever have more'n two beers in public. Forget the whole "designated driver" crap. Your designated driver is over on the other side of the bar working on his third mojito and tryin' to pick up the guy dressed up like a chick! You think he's gonna get you home safely?!? HA! Your best bet is to stay home, make sure you only have a specifically limited amount of booze in the house, give your neighbor the car keys and drink only what you got. Don't go out to buy more, just go to the bathroom, have a nice puke and go to bed.

5. Carnival Rides: Don't ever go for a ride on any device assembled in less than one day in the middle of a vacant lot by a bunch of itinerant drug addicts and alcoholics.

6. Drifting: It's a movie! Done with trained stunt drivers in a controlled enviroment. It ain't reality and you ain't Dim Weasel! Hell, boy! Even Vin wouldn't do it! You got no clue what it feels like to hydroplane your car sideways into a tree on a rainy night! Time slows down. You got no control. The ambulance guys will insist on immobilizing your neck. The cops will ask all sorts of embarrassing questions. The e.r. doctor will have to pick little broken bits of glass outta yer nostrils and ear canal! You'll have to get another car or have the old one repaired and that costs a lot of money 'cause your insurance company will cancel you AND raise your rates! It ain't fun, Slow yurass down!

6. Casual Sex: Don't ever have unprotected sex with a stranger. For that matter don't ever have unprotected sex with someone you know either. Actually, don't ever have protected sex either. Aww hell! just don't do it! Ever! It usually ends up bad. Trust me, you're better off taking a vow or sumthin' cause it's nothin but trubble!

more pearls to come as time permits...

you live a very sad, sad life.

If you're ever in SLC, hit me up and we'll go hit a rave or some shit...pick up some whores to nail raw-dawg...and, since I don't have a plane, jump out of perfectly good moving cars.