The Brutality of it...

[Garland]

Who said MMA wouldn't work for women in a SD situation against a large guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWQk3gfNrGU&search=nhb

[treelizard]

I love testing out WSD techniques against MMA guys. then i can tell what works and what doesn't. against trained fighters.

[Sagacious Lu]

You need to have a relaxed awareness. If you cannot be aware and relaxed at the same time, you've got a lot of work to do. Trained fighters (in sports--boxing, MMA, etc.) look very relaxed even when they're getting hammered...

IMHO this cannot be taught. I think the only way to develope the ability to keep your composure that way is to be repeatedly forced to function while being attacked.

[treelizard]

IMHO this cannot be taught. I think the only way to develope the ability to keep your composure that way is to be repeatedly forced to function while being attacked.

SO having somebody work on that isn't teaching them?

[Sagacious Lu]

SO having somebody work on that isn't teaching them?

I think repeatedly putting someone into a full-contact sparring situation will develope that quality- assuming the person has a personality that won't just panic and quit after getting hit a couple times. I think trying to get some people to be that way is just hopeless because they just aren't fighters and never will be- in those cases I doubt having the best teacher in the world would make much difference. I guess what I mean is that all a teacher or coach can do is put the student into that kind of situation and let them find their composure for themselves. The people who are determined to succeed will learn to stay level headed, but once they are given the opportunity they have to do it for themselves.

[treelizard]

I think repeatedly putting someone into a full-contact sparring situation will develope that quality- assuming the person has a personality that won't just panic and quit after getting hit a couple times. I think trying to get some people to be that way is just hopeless because they just aren't fighters and never will be- in those cases I doubt having the best teacher in the world would make much difference. I guess what I mean is that all a teacher or coach can do is put the student into that kind of situation and let them find their composure for themselves. The people who are determined to succeed will learn to stay level headed, but once they are given the opportunity they have to do it for themselves.

Interesting. I guess I consider myself as one of those people who is "just not a fighter and never will be." I will never fight with somebody over a tactical seat. I will always prefer other people doing the dirty work for me and staying out of the way. I will never seek out a fight intentionally. I'm just not cut out for combat and I know it in my heart. But I still know how to handle myself and will do whatever I need to, to get home safely.

As for people who panic and quit after getting hit in class, well I probably would have been one of those people too, but luckily I had AMAZING teachers that have gone far above and beyond the call of duty in trying to tailor their classes to individual students' personality styles, strengths and weaknesses, etc. and teach in a way that is digestible and that somebody could handle. I read in a book that discussed stress (distress vs. eustress or whatever good stress is called) was when the circumstances you are dealing with are beyond your capability of handling them--so it's up to the instructor to make sure you are being challenged, but not enough that you'll quit. And then upping the level of challenge.

I saw a very dear friend of mine go through a complete transformation during a WSD class. She started out by saying, "I don't want to hurt anyone!! I wanna go home!!" and I tried to assure her by telling her that the hardest part was just showing up. She was an animal by the end of the class. I guarantee that she would have walked out had she been hit as hard in the beginning of class as she was by the end.

I think everyone is capable of learning basic self-defense that will help them have a reasonable chance of surviving what they will likely encounter in a normal lifetime.

I think a person is also a zillion times more likely to keep their composure if they have thought about similar situations to ones they will encounter, and can therefore have a base of knowledge to reason from instead of responding emotionally.

I also think that being repeatedly forced to function while being attacked can be done in different "levels"--maybe don't go full force on the beginners.

In addition, I think other things also help with keeping composure... I'm a big fan of prayer, meditation, ceremony, and other things that will help someone come back to center when under stress. Breathing is nice.

My apologies if everything I've written is fairly obvious.

[Tom Yum]

The problem with always thinking that your neighbors and household appliances are about to attack you is that you are always very very tense. Not only will this cause all kinds of health problems and emotional problems, it's also very draining energetically, not to mention the fact that it will hurt you in a fight. You need to have a relaxed awareness. If you cannot be aware and relaxed at the same time, you've got a lot of work to do. Trained fighters (in sports--boxing, MMA, etc.) look very relaxed even when they're getting hammered... I'm not sure how many arts teach this but it's always something I look at when I'm sitting in on a dojo. Are people tense, or relaxed? You fight how you train... Of course I think you need to be able to both be relaxed and be explosive, but I'm always amazed at how much emphasis there is in so many different unrelated arts on this. Like in Muay Thai when they say your leg needs to be loose during your blocks, as one recent example... Ninjutsu does a lot on this too--the most advanced stance is the open stance, they teach. It's good stuff. The difference between breaking a board and (trying to) break a hose.

lol at the appliances attacking people.

Remember the movie Maximum Overdrive? It was one of those 80's horror movies about appliances coming to life and attacking people.

Agreed on the Don Quixote 'attacking the windmills' philosophy.

[Garland]

lol at the appliances attacking people.

Remember the movie Maximum Overdrive? It was one of those 80's horror movies about appliances coming to life and attacking people.

Agreed on the Don Quixote 'attacking the windmills' philosophy.

Shitty 80's film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqz2rejJS6M&search=maximum%20overdrive

Where the FVCK is Sancho Panza??? Im a kill the lil' bitch if I catch him humping that damn mule again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAH5LB-lCFw&search=don%20quixote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMAl_QeMs4Y&search=don%20quixote

*don't anyone say SHIT about my predisposition to cartoons and ballet...I will KILL you.

Oh Sancho best go run and hide, Goo's got a new 45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSPTnkXJ6js&search=sublime

[Garland]

and THIS is for making me say fvck instead of ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcp-rPaJJFQ&search=scarface

fucking fucks.

[kingoftheforest]

Ahhhhh!!!

and THIS is for making me say fvck instead of ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcp-rPaJJFQ&search=scarface

fucking fucks.

Dude here ya go. M'Kay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VHIWkJjt04&search=south%20park%20shit

[Garland]

Dude here ya go. M'Kay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VHIW...%20park%20shit

you made me do it...you FUCKING made me do it...
check ur pm, beotch.

I feel bad about it already.

[kingoftheforest]

you made me do it...you FUCKING made me do it...
check ur pm, beotch.

I feel bad about it already.

Wow that really was some sick sheet there buddy. I'm gonna go scrub my brain with brillo now.

[Sagacious Lu]

Interesting. I guess I consider myself as one of those people who is "just not a fighter and never will be."

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit here You're enthusiasm for your training is too obvious for me to buy into this one

As for people who panic and quit after getting hit in class, well I probably would have been one of those people too, but luckily I had AMAZING teachers that have gone far above and beyond the call of duty in trying to tailor their classes to individual students' personality styles, strengths and weaknesses, etc. and teach in a way that is digestible and that somebody could handle. I read in a book that discussed stress (distress vs. eustress or whatever good stress is called) was when the circumstances you are dealing with are beyond your capability of handling them--so it's up to the instructor to make sure you are being challenged, but not enough that you'll quit. And then upping the level of challenge.

I saw a very dear friend of mine go through a complete transformation during a WSD class. She started out by saying, "I don't want to hurt anyone!! I wanna go home!!" and I tried to assure her by telling her that the hardest part was just showing up. She was an animal by the end of the class. I guarantee that she would have walked out had she been hit as hard in the beginning of class as she was by the end.

I think everyone is capable of learning basic self-defense that will help them have a reasonable chance of surviving what they will likely encounter in a normal lifetime.

I think a person is also a zillion times more likely to keep their composure if they have thought about similar situations to ones they will encounter, and can therefore have a base of knowledge to reason from instead of responding emotionally.

I also think that being repeatedly forced to function while being attacked can be done in different "levels"--maybe don't go full force on the beginners.

In addition, I think other things also help with keeping composure... I'm a big fan of prayer, meditation, ceremony, and other things that will help someone come back to center when under stress. Breathing is nice.

My apologies if everything I've written is fairly obvious.

The thing is that you're still talking about people who were determined to learn even if it didn't come easily, that makes all the difference. I don't know, it's not like I have much experience as a coach or teacher; I've been asked to help junior students at times but only under close supervision. The thing is I remember guys that went out for wrestling year after year that were never successful because try as they might they just didn't get it. I wouldn't ever assume that an individual couldn't learn if they applied themself, but it seems to me that there are people that just aren't cut out for it.

[Sagacious Lu]

lol at the appliances attacking people.

Remember the movie Maximum Overdrive? It was one of those 80's horror movies about appliances coming to life and attacking people.

That movie was awesome It even had music by AC/DC The short story by Stephen King was disappointing though

[treelizard]

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit here You're enthusiasm for your training is too obvious for me to buy into this one:P

Heh, fair enough. But I feel like if I were a "real" fighter I wouldn't feel this amazing sense of relief when I hang out with people who want to sit in the tactical seats... Instead I'd be keeping an eye on 'em to make sure they were really doing their job.

The thing is that you're still talking about people who were determined to learn even if it didn't come easily, that makes all the difference. I don't know, it's not like I have much experience as a coach or teacher; I've been asked to help junior students at times but only under close supervision. The thing is I remember guys that went out for wrestling year after year that were never successful because try as they might they just didn't get it. I wouldn't ever assume that an individual couldn't learn if they applied themself, but it seems to me that there are people that just aren't cut out for it.

I just think that the desire to learn or not to learn is a CHOICE--so it's not whether or not someone is "cut out for it" but whether they CHOOSE to learn. I'd be interested in how the wrestlers didn't "get it"--was it that they knew where they needed to improve and just didn't work on it?