Anti-Grappling

[EmptyneSs]

heres the main problem with "antigrappling". most of the time, people who are attacked in real life are ambushed and taken by surprise. thugs, crackheads, robbers, murders dont usually come up to people and say hey, lets fight it out. they attack you when you least expect it. and thats the problem with anti grappling. grappling just sometimes happens, its a fact of life on the street. you arent always going to be able to prevent it. your just going to find yourself being overpowered by someone you dont know all of a sudden. and once thats starts happening, your antigrapple bs wont help you one bit. extensive knowledge and experience in grappling will.

and all the anti grappling techniques and strategies you mentioned like making space, getting to your feet, sprawling, etc its all basic grappling techniques. just cause you add a ballpoint pen or knife to it doesnt mean its an entire new concept or style.

my own jiu jitsu/judo instructor told us that the ultimate self defense move in bjj was posting on one hand and getting to your feet fast with your other hand up to protect your face.

and yes, anti grappling is something that emin boztep claims to have developed. its just a scam he made to keep his job after people started gravitating towards grappling and muay thai for empty handed training.

combatives and SD training arent the only ones that have "dirty/deadly" techniques either. bjj and muay thai both have them as well.

[traveller]

1st for some reason my post didn't show from earlier so here we go again
I'm new here and read this rather long thread with some interest as well as bewilderment. And I am obviously late on this thread as the last post was like 2 weeks ago, but here we go.
Anti-grappling is nothing new. The techniques which some are calling anti-grappling are just break aways, releases, punches and positioning tactics which have been around since well before UFC or any of our organized MMA events today.
The originator of the thread may be correct in stating that Gracie brought attention to a weakness in the strikers armor in todays sport, but to state it never existed before is foolish. It demonstrates a complete disregard for the history of the martial arts.
Saying that no one would shoot in or rush an armed oponent is another demonstration of ignorance about martial arts history.
Many of the tactics and techniques used in warfare throughout history were designed to rush under or around anopponents weapon and disarm the opponent or use the leverage of the weapon against the wielder by employing grappling techniques.
The Spartans trained in wrestling and punching along with their sword and shield technique. Why would they train to grapple with an opponent if they did not intend to use the moves against an armed foe.
Swordplay and full armored fighting manuals from the middle ages also demonstrate techniques which closely resemble the grapopling techniques we see today.
I am not taking a particular side here as it is really a matter of semantics and whether you view the subject solely as something that has taken place since modern MMA events began or if you look at the full history of all martial arts.
The fact remains though, there is very little that is new in the world of martial arts. Mostly it is just a different way of using the same techiniques.

[jubaji]

The fact remains though, there is very little that is new in the world of martial arts. Mostly it is just a different way of using the same techiniques.

Or cooking up some transparent marketing ploy to teach crappy half-ass grappling to naive kids and charge them a ton of $$ for it!

[traveller]

so true

true...true

[Uke]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy? I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

[jubaji]

So now all striking is "anti-grappling"? LOL

You seem to be a perfect sucker for the power of marketing.

LOL, what a joke.

[jubaji]

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

No, the point is that the only way to grapple a grappler is to be a better grappler, not to fool yourself that you've 'figured it out' because you attended a one-day seminar and got a free T-shirt.

[BoarSpear]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy? I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

[Tom Yum]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy?

Damn, its been a while since anyone has mentioned the Shredder.

I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

I believe Mo Smith trained intensively with Frank Shamrock in grappling fundamentals before the Conan fight.

If I'm not mistaken Mo Smith KO'd Conan with a kick to the head. It worked because Conan was tired and had probably never seen a kick come at his head at that velocity.

[DickHardman]

When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy?

again, i cant tell if you are being serious or not, bringing up the shredder and then asking if its a marketing ploy or not lol.....

[Uke]

again, i cant tell if you are being serious or not, bringing up the shredder and then asking if its a marketing ploy or not lol.....

Speaking of gimmicks ... how's that working for ya, Dick?

[Uke]

I believe Mo Smith trained intensively with Frank Shamrock in grappling fundamentals before the Conan fight.

If I'm not mistaken Mo Smith KO'd Conan with a kick to the head. It worked because Conan was tired and had probably never seen a kick come at his head at that velocity.

Mo Smith beat alot of top guys using striking. And Conan wasn't the best of them. He could have been tired or whatever, but he still got knocked out. I could say that the strikers only get submitted because they're all tired. They got beat because they got beat.

Pete Williams caught Coleman with a similar kick. Was Coleman tired?

[DickHardman]

Speaking of gimmicks ... how's that working for ya, Dick?

trying to change the subject when asked about your own statement is a sign of desperation.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Mo Smith beat alot of top guys using striking. And Conan wasn't the best of them. He could have been tired or whatever, but he still got knocked out. I could say that the strikers only get submitted because they're all tired. They got beat because they got beat.

Pete Williams caught Coleman with a similar kick. Was Coleman tired?

Whats your point with all this? What are you trying to prove?

And strikers(of any amount of skill, who have fought in any time era, against most kinds of grapplers) have gotten taken down right off the bat and put into a bad position then submitted. Not because they were tired, but because they lacked the grappling skill/ awareness. Plain and simple.

[Uke]

No, the point is that the only way to grapple a grappler is to be a better grappler, not to fool yourself that you've 'figured it out' because you attended a one-day seminar and got a free T-shirt.

Well that would mean that you were wearing a T-shirt when you typed that because you and the rest of the ground grappling monkeys think thought that you'd "figured out" a way to nullify striking by laying on your asses and holding on like you were slow dancing. All wrestlers and BJJ players thought grappling was undefeatable for quite some time.

That is, until Mo Smith knocked out one of your top ground grapplers. Then it became a trend. Grapplers began getting their asses kicked. What I don't understand is why you call yourself a grappler. Grappling doesn't always end up on the ground the way that wrestling and BJJ does. And there hasn't been a display of stand up grappling in NHB yet aside from the occasional guillotine choke. You're a ground wrestler.

And no Bunny, all striking is not anti-grappling. Just the strikes that lay you out when you're trying to use your famous grapplin' know-how. Its not just striking either. It can be grappling too. Like when you try to use a triangle choke on someone on the street and they pick you up Quinton Jackson style and powerbomb you on a fire hydrant. Oh, but I guess someone of your caliber wouldn't fall prey to the mistakes that someone like Ricardo Arona would make, huh Bunny?

There are a lot of differences between your high school wrastlin' and reality. First off, if you were to lay on the street, I'd stomp the shit out of you because shoes and boots are very hard. You miss a shoot and I'm going to stomp your wrist, your neck, or your fingers. On a soft mat, that does little to no damage. On pavement, many of the ring friendly risks will have your ass in a sling. A quick stomp to your ankles on the pavement would pay much more dividends than a low roundhouse to the leg while you're laying on your back.

There's no such thing as anti-grappling because Bunny says so. Even though it existed before Emin Botzepe was born, he claims it was his marketing scheme. Even though grappling masters have trained in it and advocated learning it, Bunny says it isn't so.

Maybe Bunny should answer his own question:

The bigger question is why you would think that your opinion matters to me at all.

I don't know why you'd think that either, Bunny.