Anti-Grappling

[jubaji]

Certainly point #5 is beyond question!

[Uke]

Its not a matter of its 'excellence', the point is that it doesn't exist! Its a cute little catchphrase that charlatans have cooked up to sell (yes, sell. it is a marketing ploy whether you want to admit it or not) non-grapplers on the idea that they can close a gaping hole in their skills without actually gaining the requisite skills!

I've asked this before on this very thread: is counter-punching "anti-punching?" can you learn to counter-punch without learning to punch, no matter what cute name you want to give it?

Its an empty concept. There is no 'anti-grappling', there is just grappling. If you want to have a reasonable expectation of being able to handle yourself in a grappling situation you have to learn how to grapple. If you learn it half-assed because of some cute catchphrase on a t-shirt you have only yourself to blame when the inevitable occurs.

No, antipunching would be what BJJ players do. They shoot in to clinch because they lack the ability to trade with a seasoned striker so they negate any power a striker has by bringing the fight to the ground where the striker can only arm punch, and cannot generate sufficient ko power. That would be antipunching in the context of this discussion. Anti-grappling or more accurately anti-ground-grappling is designed to hinder or negate a ground grappler's tools, and to provide enough space and opportunity to get up to your feet in the event you are taken down. Its just that simple.

Second, not all of anti grappling's techniques and concept involve grappling. At least the one's that I've experienced are mostly based of striking. But that's the point. I've actually done it. I've experienced it. I know you haven't jubaji by what you write, or more accurately by what you leave out. Now as much as we go back and forth with the bullshit, this was a legitimate claim and question you posed.

But the problem lies in the fact that it had been addressed on this thread, yet you still pose the same question without investigation. That is a case of you dismissing fact for your opinion-based argument. IPON clearly outlined his experience with antigrappling, and his successes with it as well. But because you've decided that it doesn't exist, to you and only a few others here, it doesn't. But I've seen you discuss the value of being well rounded, yet you refuse to investigate not only what I've written about, but what IPON has written about as well. As a matter of fact, if you read the thread, you'd see that quite a few people not only understand the principles of what I'm writing, but have been using those same principles for quite some time.

Anti-grappling = the way of preventing ground grappling situations.
Now for the purpose of semantics, we can call it "counter-grappling" when it involves any grappling techniques to prevent ground grappling situations if it helps you sleep better at night. But for all intents and purposes anti-grappling is the way of not going to the ground and assuming a mount or guard position. It is getting to your feet using mostly strikes, but it can involve other grappling methods.

But regardless, it is what it is, and it is many things. A concept. Principles. Techniques. A smarter way of thinking. A way to stay alive longer. Self defense strategy. Anti-grappling is all of those things, but the important point here is that it very much exists, and it is rapidly being adopted and refined. It is a work in progress, as not everyone uses the hand techniques of wing tsun, but its definitely coming along.

I agree with you that a grappler would have a much, much larger set of grappling knowledge. But no one ever contested that. What antigrappling does is condition a fighter, even one well versed in ground grappling, to use his skills to get to his feet. No matter how well you can ground grapple, you will not and cannot be ready for all comers and weapons while you are engaged on the ground being tied up by an attacker. Now while there are many methods of doing this, they are all still geared to either keep you on your feet or get you back to your feet.

Lastly, it isn't intelligent to state that something cannot and does not exist based on your own limited exposure to the world martial art community. The set of concepts and techniques we were debating are not superhuman, nor are they supernatural. Therefore you have no basis whatsoever to argue its existence, aside from your own lack of interest to investigate.

But all in all, I hear ya.

[jubaji]

No, antipunching would be what BJJ players do. .

No, it wouldn't. That was kinda my point. There is no such thing as 'anti-punching'. There is punching. There is striking, there is grappling, there are any number of ways to combine them, but they are still what they are.

[jubaji]

Second, not all of anti grappling's techniques and concept involve grappling. At least the one's that I've experienced are mostly based of striking.

I'm not arguing against the existence of MMA, I'm telling you that no matter what someone convinces people like you to call it, striking is striking and grappling is grappling. If you learn half of either because you bought into some marketing scheme you will be the worse for it. If you train both and combine them wisely you will be the better for it.

[jubaji]

I've actually done it. I've experienced it. I know you haven't jubaji by what you write, or more accurately by what you leave out. .

There is no aspect of grappling that you have learned in 'anti-grappling' that I haven't experienced a thousand times.

[Uke]

There is no aspect of grappling that you have learned in 'anti-grappling' that I haven't experienced a thousand times.

There are many aspects of grappling and anti grappling that you haven't experienced, jubaji. You're just too sheltered to realize it. You should really get out more.

[jubaji]

There are many aspects of grappling and anti grappling that you haven't experienced, jubaji. You're just too sheltered to realize it. You should really get out more.

You'd better think twice before spewing ridiculous ignorant BS like that. But then, that would be two thoughts more than your maximum capacity.

[EmptyneSs]

No, antipunching would be what BJJ players do. They shoot in to clinch because they lack the ability to trade with a seasoned striker so they negate any power a striker has by bringing the fight to the ground where the striker can only arm punch, and cannot generate sufficient ko power. That would be antipunching in the context of this discussion. Anti-grappling or more accurately anti-ground-grappling is designed to hinder or negate a ground grappler's tools, and to provide enough space and opportunity to get up to your feet in the event you are taken down. Its just that simple.

Second, not all of anti grappling's techniques and concept involve grappling. At least the one's that I've experienced are mostly based of striking. But that's the point. I've actually done it. I've experienced it. I know you haven't jubaji by what you write, or more accurately by what you leave out. Now as much as we go back and forth with the bullshit, this was a legitimate claim and question you posed.

But the problem lies in the fact that it had been addressed on this thread, yet you still pose the same question without investigation. That is a case of you dismissing fact for your opinion-based argument. IPON clearly outlined his experience with antigrappling, and his successes with it as well. But because you've decided that it doesn't exist, to you and only a few others here, it doesn't. But I've seen you discuss the value of being well rounded, yet you refuse to investigate not only what I've written about, but what IPON has written about as well. As a matter of fact, if you read the thread, you'd see that quite a few people not only understand the principles of what I'm writing, but have been using those same principles for quite some time.

Anti-grappling = the way of preventing ground grappling situations.
Now for the purpose of semantics, we can call it "counter-grappling" when it involves any grappling techniques to prevent ground grappling situations if it helps you sleep better at night. But for all intents and purposes anti-grappling is the way of not going to the ground and assuming a mount or guard position. It is getting to your feet using mostly strikes, but it can involve other grappling methods.

But regardless, it is what it is, and it is many things. A concept. Principles. Techniques. A smarter way of thinking. A way to stay alive longer. Self defense strategy. Anti-grappling is all of those things, but the important point here is that it very much exists, and it is rapidly being adopted and refined. It is a work in progress, as not everyone uses the hand techniques of wing tsun, but its definitely coming along.

I agree with you that a grappler would have a much, much larger set of grappling knowledge. But no one ever contested that. What antigrappling does is condition a fighter, even one well versed in ground grappling, to use his skills to get to his feet. No matter how well you can ground grapple, you will not and cannot be ready for all comers and weapons while you are engaged on the ground being tied up by an attacker. Now while there are many methods of doing this, they are all still geared to either keep you on your feet or get you back to your feet.

Lastly, it isn't intelligent to state that something cannot and does not exist based on your own limited exposure to the world martial art community. The set of concepts and techniques we were debating are not superhuman, nor are they supernatural. Therefore you have no basis whatsoever to argue its existence, aside from your own lack of interest to investigate.

But all in all, I hear ya.

*yawn*....





.....*crickets chirping*..............

[EmptyneSs]

There are many aspects of grappling and anti grappling that you haven't experienced, jubaji. You're just too sheltered to realize it. You should really get out more.

arent you questioning his credentials?

you did say this didnt you....

Since posting here, I notice that its always the guys who don't know shit who are always questioning other people's credentials.

[Uke]

I also said that you two don't write anything comprehensive about martial arts. But at least jubaji attempted to above and didn't need to fall back on arguing. Here you go, off topic, speaking yet again about something that has nothing to martial arts.

keep up the good work emptyness

[EmptyneSs]

I also said that you two don't write anything comprehensive about martial arts. But at least jubaji attempted to above and didn't need to fall back on arguing. Here you go, off topic, speaking yet again about something that has nothing to martial arts.

im not arguing anything at all. you said people who question other people's credentials dont know shit, and you have questioned other peoples credentials many times on this thread. so by your own admission, we should not listen to anything you say since you agree yourself that you dont know what you are talking about. and i agree with you, so theres no arguement here.

[Uke]

im not arguing anything at all. you said people who question other people's credentials dont know shit, and you have questioned other peoples credentials many times on this thread. so by your own admission, we should not listen to anything you say since you agree yourself that you dont know what you are talking about. and i agree with you, so theres no arguement here.

Well if that's the way you digested it, then good for you. I guess you'll sit back for the rest of your time posting here waiting for me to post so that you can take what I write out of context in order to seem like you could know something. I'm still waiting for your brilliant analysis of why anti-grappling doesn't exist and won't work. I guess you're [i]saving[i] the good stuff for later, huh?

Write something having to do with martial arts or go find another place to look for attention. Waiting for you to display any level of MA competence has proved a waste of time, and I've done enough charity work by entertaining your last couple of posts. Have the last word if it it'll help soothe your ego.

[jubaji]

Write something having to do with martial arts or go find another place to look for attention. Waiting for you to display any level of MA competence has proved a waste of time, and I've done enough charity work by entertaining your last couple of posts. Have the last word if it it'll help soothe your ego.

I don't accept you as qualified to pass judgment on who is or is not displaying 'competence', kid.

[EmptyneSs]

Well if that's the way you digested it, then good for you. I guess you'll sit back for the rest of your time posting here waiting for me to post so that you can take what I write out of context in order to seem like you could know something. I'm still waiting for your brilliant analysis of why anti-grappling doesn't exist and won't work. I guess you're [i]saving[i] the good stuff for later, huh?

Write something having to do with martial arts or go find another place to look for attention. Waiting for you to display any level of MA competence has proved a waste of time, and I've done enough charity work by entertaining your last couple of posts. Have the last word if it it'll help soothe your ego.

yeah, no matter how many times you have been proved a hypocrite, and someone who lacks information on grappling and self defense, you still want to act like you are some kind of authority on the subject and come back with some lame rubuttal that completely ignores the original post you are reffering to. but thats ok, trying to change the subject is just about all you have going for you right now.

[Maxx]

I haven't read the entire post, but is any of this centered around Ving Tsun and their supposed Anti-Grappling program? I'm just curious... I've seen some clips of Emin Boztepe on youtube. I know that he was originally part of Dr. Leung Ting's group and that group supposedly developed some type of anti-grappling program.

I did some research on it and was not overly impressed. I mean, it might work against an untrained thug who tries to wrestle you to the ground but with a skilled individual... say a MMA fighter with a background in wrestling/grappling as well a greco-roman wrestling...no, I don't see the stuff working.