Some British Combatives

[eXcessiveForce]

by the way, who was it that ban you the first time? Terry?

[WildWest.]

I'm the one who said it was not a fight stopper. Please read my post.

Wild West - I don't knwo the guy, but do know people who confiirm his SAS past.

That's cool, I guess I'll take your word for it. It's awesome when you wade through all the shit the Internet has to offer and then find some quality stuff that's quite inspirational....or in this case, you found it.

[Thai Bri]

I didn't have to wade through the internet. I know the poor guy who was getting the shit kicked out of him.

[WildWest.]

I didn't have to wade through the internet. I know the poor guy who was getting the shit kicked out of him.

Did he get hurt at all?? Falling on concrete isn't a fun experience.

[Thai Bri]

Yes. He got a slight fracture to the skull and an unusual condition of orange fluid leaking out of his nose. It was the blows that did it, not the landing. But he's alright.

[WildWest.]

Yes. He got a slight fracture to the skull and an unusual condition of orange fluid leaking out of his nose. It was the blows that did it, not the landing. But he's alright.

Are you sure it wasn't Gatorade ?

I've never heard of that before.

[HERQ454]

Thai Bri.Since you know the guy who help make the DVD,Would you have seen the finished result by chance,and if so do you have opinion on it.

[Thai Bri]

He has just sent me the other two DVDs in the series.

I'm going to be casting my eye over it and sending out a review of them across a few forums on the net.

[WildWest.]

I look forward to hearing about them.

[Thai Bri]

Heres a review

SAS Fighting Secrets

Introduction

There has been a lot of interest on the Self Protection forums re this lately, so I thought it would be a good idea if I gave it a seriously close looking at. This DVD features Bob Spour, a well known UK Thai Boxing instructor, and I reckon that his sporting background makes the whole issue even more fascinating. It is produced by Richard Grannon of “From the Cage to the Street” fame.

Firstly the title. Personally I am put off by the use of the phrases “Secrets!” and “SAS!” in the combative world. I guess there are just too many people out there claiming stuff that isn’t actually true! Now I most certainly DO believe Bob’s lineage, and do believe he was in the SAS. I just think that a more conservative approach in the title may avoid the temptation to just say “Bollocks!” without looking further. Because of both Bob’s reputation, and my own knowledge of Richard Grannon, I did decide to look further. And I’m glad I did. But I do wonder if they have lost potential customers because of the title.

Production Values

The music is cool, and builds well to compliment the opening sequence. Richard has put this on the net here and there also, and it is great advertising.

There are three DVDs in all, each one with a menu at the start, so you can view it from whichever section you desire. A small criticism involves DVD number 3, when the credits to one section do not accurately reflect the section that follows. A minor cock up!

As other people have said, one section is a little ruined because of the sound of the wind being picked up by the camera. You can still hear what is going on, but it does detract a little from the professionalism of the film.

All in all it is produced very well in comparison with other works from the Combatives community. This isn’t just one of those “point, press and make it up as you go along” type affairs, and some thought has obviously gone into it.

Presentation

Filmed both inside and outside, each area has what can only be described as a “military” backdrop. Again this can set of warning messages of “toy soldier commandos!” in your head, as well as the fact that they are wearing cammos. But, when you think of it again, this is a presentation about SAS fighting methods after all, so I guess it is ok. As long as Phil Elmore doesn’t appear!

Bob does 99% of the talking (naturally) and the film alternates between action and explanation. This illustrates the points he is making well. There are a couple of interviews though. I felt that these were interesting, but could have been done whilst something else was on the screen, maybe slow motion replays of the action of something? Just looking at Bob sitting down and talking wasn’t enough to keep the attention visually.

Bob’s enthusiasm when on his feet is contagious, and he keeps the balance between talking and the action very well. He also uses the odd gem of a phrase to keep you smiling here and there:-

”I’m fucking AGGRESSIVE when I’m doing this!”

“If you want to train but are not prepared to get the odd bump and bruise? **** IT OFF!”

“You do that to my finger, you’ll break it. THEN I’LL FUCKING KILL YOU!

Content

Simplicity is touted as the order of the day, underscored by speed, aggression and surprise. No arguments there! He demonstrates a selection of easy to do strikes that anyone should be able to pick up. He seems to prefer the slap to the jaw, but can demonstrate others for people with different preferences.

One of the most interesting methods for me involved his tactic of manipulating the head. He has this method of pulling it forwards and round…. Then reversing the direction and “face ripping.” It was pretty interesting and not unlike a very brief version of Dimitri’s “Shredder.”

His emphasis on aggression is evident throughout, in both word and deed.

I did feel a little sorry for Rich. There he was, attacking Bob in a relatively compliant manner, and getting thrown around on a concrete surface as a result. He took a solid blow full in the face and, afterwards, had to go to the hospital. Nah, my sympathy has gone! An artist must suffer for his art!

In all seriousness, though, Bob was illustrating his moves against a relatively compliant Richard. His escapes from being grabbed suffered a little because of this, because it was evident that Rich wasn’t grabbing as hard and fast as he could. But that is the difficulty of Combatives materials. If Rich had gone in hard, what does Bob do? Kill him? Some degree of compliancy, especially for demo purposes, has to be there.

There were lots of different sections on offer, including techniques against:-

Knife
Hand guns
Multiples etc.

Whatever it was, Bob attacks the attacker. This is a no compromise approach. Go for him if you want to, but you’ll soon find that he is coming for you.

As an aside I loved his R.T.D. It’s a classic. Buy the DVD to find out what it is! But don’t try it at home kids!

Contentious issues

I am no Combatives expert, but I did find myself disagreeing with some of Bob’s methodology. Albeit paraphrasing, I can briefly cover them here:-

Do not train for an attack from behind - I can’t agree with this. The rationale is that preparing for an attack from behind makes it more likely to happen. But if you just refuse to accept it, you have more chance of avoiding it. Somehow training for it would make you accept it…. Not training for it means you won’t. This reminds me a little of the groundwork thread on the old GT board. Bob had the same philosophy about being taken down. Don’t accept the possibility, and it is less likely to happen. This doesn’t work for me. I want to be prepared for Sod’s Law - because that certainly does exist!

Only soldiers who have been into battle have the necessary experience - I’m not a soldier, and never have been. But people have tried to stick all kinds of things into me and, whilst no one has shot directly at me just yet, I’ve certainly driven towards the distinct possibility a few times. Enough to know that I must be mad! Personally I think that many people have the relevant experience; from Doormen to Cops etc., and even ordinary folks who were just unlucky enough to get brought up in the wrong place. I think that plenty of people who haven’t been to war have the required attitude and aggression in them. If you’ve been in a position where you “knew” that you were almost certainly going to die, but came through it courageously, then in my view you have “been there, done that.”

Don’t train your weak side - This is another bone of contention for me. I want to train my weak side because of, you’ve guessed it, Sod’s Law. I’m carrying an injury at the moment, and this will hinder my response to an extent should I need it. One day I may have a more disabling injury, or be carrying something (or someone!) very valuable! I just want to be able to hit hard with just about every body weapon that I have.

“You don’t actually need that much stamina for a streetfight” - To me it is a strange point to make. Bob WILL have this stamina owing to his Thai Boxing training. And SAS guys may have a little bit of stamina, since they run over mountains! If you don’t finish the other guy(s) quickly then stamina will be a major factor in my view. It is better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.

Striking the bicep in knife defence - I have no experience of this type of blow, and concede that it may work. But Bob advocates striking it numerous times until the guy drops the knife? Firstly, what is stopping him moving his arm and then stabbing you and, secondly, why doesn’t Bob revert to Plan a), i.e. hitting the other guy in the head? It was certainly in range on the relevant clip.

Now that seems like a lot to disagree with! And I am an argumentative sod! But there is a great deal of good stuff in the DVD - common sense speed, aggression and surprise when implementing nasty and brutal blows. Good stuff!

Conclusion

There is a lot to be gained from studying this DVD. There are some pretty brutal blows in there, along with some interesting fighting moves that are not as common, but look pretty effective. And it is pleasing to note the emphasis on aggression. Without it a fighter is like a car with no petrol. Bob merely scratches the surface on how to develop it, and promises a new DVD specifically on the subject (using NLP principles). I’ll certainly be taking a look.

All in all a great Combatives work, and there will be something for everyone in it. I can recommend it, and would also look forward to debate with others about the points I raised.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope you got something from it.

[WildWest.]

Thanks Thai Bri. An interesting read and good detailed review. I like the points you, or Bob, make about aggresssion, speed and power. Very true in my opinion as most MA's are more about reactive defence rather than proactive. Sometimes you just have to catch them before they catch you.

I'll post some more comments later as I have to get to work.

[Troll Virus]

yes slaps to the ear can damage the ear drum. However it's dubious that damaging the ear drum will help you much in a fight.

Just need to drop in a line here in case anyone instructing or in need of information is looking.
Rupturing an eardrum is incredibly easy to do.
No, it is not a fight stopper, at best, it's like coming out of a Metallica concert having spent four hours in front of the Bass end of the PA system.

However, the damage caused is not temporary, it's life long!
The eardrum is not like a muscle you can exercise over a period of physiotherapy till it's better.
It'll heal to a degree, but will never approach it's former function.

The air pressure of being hit square on the ear with 16oz boxing gloves is sufficient to rupture the ear drum.
Some types of head gear make this even more likely.

Slapping the ear is one thing, hitting the ear with a cupped hand is another.
Don't ever mess about with this!

[WildWest.]

Thai Bri,

Back to the DVD. Manipulating the head is one of the techniques we use in Hapkido and it is also used in MT when you get into the clinch. Same sort of thing. Watching how Bob does it in his promo clip is a little more on the dangerous side as he uses both hands (one on the back of the head and one on the chin) but is more effective than the ones we practise using one hand behind the head and the other to move a shoulder or limb. This works but Bob's way is more guaranteed to work in my opinion. The only problem is you may also permanently damage your opponents neck, but if it's you or him, better it to be him.

How does Bob use the slap to the jaw? I presume this is similar to a straight palm strike?? He hits around the hinge area below the ear doesn't he??

His comments regarding the army as being the only place to get the necessary experience for self defence are a little misplaced. Just because he wears camo's in the DVD doesn't make him God. If he wore a gi do you think people would listen to him?? Probably because he talks some very good stuff!! But if you or I wore some camo's for a self defence DVD, me with no military experience (can't speak for you), would it make me look more legitimate even if I talked shit?? Possibly. Image plays a significant part in selling your product.

In saying all that though I liked the promo clip, the review sounds good, so it is probably worth looking out for.

[Thai Bri]

Yeah, I'm a bit nervous abouit training those head manipulations. To me it is best to shred/manipulate it enough to disorient the guy enough to get a big shot in on him. But to use it in this way looks pretty dangerous to your training partners!

As for his slap to the jaw area? I don't think he specifically aims for any particular target, mnore the general area.

[HERQ454]

I've also got the three DVD's and recommend them highly.Very valid information for those interested in the self defense/combatives field.Do I agree with everything in them ,no.But I've yet to watch any tape/DVD series and say everything in it is 100%.