advantage over grapplers

[Uke]

you cant possibly know much about grappling if your best way of using grappling skills for sd is to hold someone in your guard till they get tired lol. even most white belts have a better plan than that.

You can't possibly be that slow. I never said it was the best way. I said its what you and people like you would do in that situation.

lol dude, dont you get it? ma matches arent real life bro. sd confrontations dont take place between two skilled martial arts specialists, trying to score points for takedowns. thats why grappling for sd looks different than what you see in mma.

Exactly. MMA matches are NOT real life. But here you are, stating that even though your MMA training is sport based, it has a "SD" aspect seperate.

yeah, thats why i replied to him with examples of how grappling would be used for sd. refer to previous posts.

So I guess you didn't notice that he completey disregarded what you wrote and went on to not only quote my post, but compliment and agree with it?

yup, too bad you dont though.

So far the only thing that you've demonstrated a knowledge of is how to comment with pure opinion and no fact. Even here in this reply you haven't given one example or an insight into so-called grappling defense. I thought you were going to show the forum your grappling knowledge. Again, like always you're becoming a waste of time and effort.

everything ive written has already done that, many times in fact. your own words dispute what you write lol. you say that grapplers only defense is holding you till you get tired, but then say what i said about grappling is correct. and what i said was completely different. i actually offered kotf a reasonable explanation of grappling defense, unlike you. again, refer to my previous posts.

Empty, you seriously have a lack of reading comprehension skills. I'm sure you've seen the responses to the nonsense you write, but you choose to remain in denial. When the ignorant have nothing of merit left to say, they'll make it up as they go along.

Again, you've wasted my time, and any more spent on you would be charity i'm not willing to give. I thought this guy was actually going to say something worthwhile eventually. Oh well.

[Garland]

stop dropping hints garland. we get it already.

hey look, it's EmptyneSs's girlfriend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmukSndM-mE&search=orgazmo

[Uke]

hey look, it's EmptyneSs's girlfriend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmukSndM-mE&search=orgazmo

ROFLMAO

You can always count on Garland for a laugh.

[EmptyneSs]

You can't possibly be that slow. I never said it was the best way. I said its what you and people like you would do in that situation.





Exactly. MMA matches are NOT real life. But here you are, stating that even though your MMA training is sport based, it has a "SD" aspect seperate.



So I guess you didn't notice that he completey disregarded what you wrote and went on to not only quote my post, but compliment and agree with it?



So far the only thing that you've demonstrated a knowledge of is how to comment with pure opinion and no fact. Even here in this reply you haven't given one example or an insight into so-called grappling defense. I thought you were going to show the forum your grappling knowledge. Again, like always you're becoming a waste of time and effort.



Empty, you seriously have a lack of reading comprehension skills. I'm sure you've seen the responses to the nonsense you write, but you choose to remain in denial. When the ignorant have nothing of merit left to say, they'll make it up as they go along.

Again, you've wasted my time, and any more spent on you would be charity i'm not willing to give. I thought this guy was actually going to say something worthwhile eventually. Oh well.

you still havent disproved anything ive said.

[Garland]

you still havent disproved anything ive said.

absence of evidence is NOT absence of evidence...muthafucka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9R-Et6sezs&search=boondocks

Speaking of which; "proof" of Darwin's theory of evolution...so like us they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_JWpBdjfcg&search=wildboyz

[hEmPY]

garland jus lovez when hiz boyfriend takez da top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBv1jYLaOsI

LOL

[Uke]

you still havent disproved anything ive said.

That's the same thing that the scientists who still believe the earth is flat are saying. Seems like your your training is still at the "pushing a square wheel uphill" stage.

Good luck with that.

[Garland]

garland jus lovez when hiz boyfriend takez da top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBv1jYLaOsI

LOL

back at you bitch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnREJw3Tyvc&search=beastiality

check out hempy's "puppy luv".

[Uke]

You need to check out, [url]http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/[url]

How is it whenever the fight is on the ground, your opponent's friends will kick your head inside out and stomp your ears into a 7-inch pizza base.
If you keep the fight standing however, not only will these same friends not join in, they'll buy you drinks and they'll even let you sleep with their girlfriends.

Whenever the fight is on the ground, there is a hidden weapon. If its standing, the guy won't use a weapon. Or he'll act like a complete idiot flashing the knife around lik your sterotypical bad guy from a bad B-movie.

I didn't want you to think anyone was avoiding your post, Shard.

To answer your questions, here's 10 quick reason why being on the ground is disadvantageous in a street situation:

When you're on the ground you cannot:

Run
Throw
Dodge
Be aware of what's around you
Get effective power in your strikes
Have a chance of fighting more than one assailant
Weapon disarms
Avoid a bout that can be stalled into lasting in excess of 20 minutes
Look for a weapon like a brick or bottle
Speed of hand which is the determining factor with weapons is nullified

You can do all of those things on your feet, but none of them on your back. But since you were pretending that multiple attackers don't exist or cannot be dealt with in you post, you may want to go ahead and keep pretending by ignoring number six.

You made some good points.

[hEmPY]

garland again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QdjGxx9mW8

shake dat azz boy

LOL

[EmptyneSs]

That's the same thing that the scientists who still believe the earth is flat are saying. Seems like your your training is still at the "pushing a square wheel uphill" stage.

Good luck with that.

you still havent said anything relivent. its best that you avoid making any actual rebutals, just makes you look dumber.

[SnakePlissken]

who is more likely to end up on the ground in a confrontation on the street, the guy who has extensive knowledge of grappling and how to avoid being taken down or the guy who doesnt? a grappler getting into a fight on the street isnt going to try to go to the ground, he is most likely going to try to get you there.

In a situation where you are fighting for your life, you're going to have a lot less control of someone, because you'll be stimulated on adrenaline, which makes your muscles loose. Plus, there's the chance they'll be bigger, stonger, meaner or more drug-fucked then you. Then what? You can't expect to be able to controll someone's every movement when they are resisting with all their strength, fighting back, swinging punches and kicks into your face and gut, that's foolish. Fighting is a series of events with a near infinite number of variables, you can't possibly go into a fight saying "Yeah, I'll get him into a quick arm bar on his opening punch, throw him down onto that broken bottle, and finish up by tying him up on the ground and smashing his face into that nice fire-hydrant, yup, that'll just about do me" If you expect something as random and unpredictable as a fight to turn out exactly the way you want, then you're grossly misinformed and you're likely to end up eating a pavement sandwich one day.

im sure some people who train in grappling are dumb as shit and might actually try to fight the way uke imagines grappling is to be used, fishing for tito ortiz style takedowns and whatnot, but im sure most people at the higher level would know better. the gracies are wack, im not talkin about them. and even then, its not the style. i mean, i seriously dont think anyone who is a dedicated grappler would try to pull guard on the street on concrete, but even if someone did its cause they were a dumb ****. and even still, i guarantee you that there are some experienced grapplers that probobly would be able to triangle or armlock someone immediately by pulling guard on the ground, and even on "broken glass", so you cant underestimate them either or not be prepared.

The thing is, people do this. You can't make the argument that everyone knows better, or that everyone knows the difference between whats doable in the ring and what doesn't work in the street. They truly think that the ground is the best place to fight. The unfortunate thing is that they don't realise what a bad mistake going to the ground intentionally is, and they're spreading this philosophy of going to ground to people who don't know any better. It's just not a viable combat option. If you're taken there, fine, great, do some damage and get the hell back up, because concrete doesn't quite feel the same as a soft mat when your face is being ground to mincemeat on it.

You need to check out, [url]http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/[url]

How is it whenever the fight is on the ground, your opponent's friends will kick your head inside out and stomp your ears into a 7-inch pizza base.
If you keep the fight standing however, not only will these same friends not join in, they'll buy you drinks and they'll even let you sleep with their girlfriends.

Whenever the fight is on the ground, there is a hidden weapon. If its standing, the guy won't use a weapon. Or he'll act like a complete idiot flashing the knife around lik your sterotypical bad guy from a bad B-movie.

Oh, I never said that these things weren't an issue when standing, only that they're less of a concern. If you are proficient with a multiple attacker oriented MA, such as Penjat Silat, you'll be able to handle more then one person fairly effectively from the standing position, and as Uke said, you'll have options, improvised weapons, hidden weapons, running, etc.

On the ground, you have none of this. I'm not saying that all practicioners of ground arts act like it's the be-all, end-all of fighting, but it seems like most people get a false idea of it's effectiveness in a more violent, less controlled situation.

[J-Luck]

While BJJ is the toast of the town, it is not effective for the street fight situation, unless you're using it to gain the quick advantage and get back up in a hurry. Ground fighting on broken glass, concrete, smashed brick, curbs, etc. Is not a good policy.

Not even close to being true. Being on your BACK in a fight is a bad idea, but knowing how to control the other guy while staying on top is a GREAT idea. Bjj has good and bad ideology just like any other art.

[J-Luck]

If you're waiting for jubaji to explain ANYTHING don't hold your breath, KOTF. He never writes anything insightful. His salty comments and defense of grappling have the Matt Furey stench all over it. Mr. Arieson summed him up on another topic perfectly. And notice that he didn't once address anything in my post with facts? Kanik asked for advice and all he could do was post emoticons. This guy's apparently brimming with knowledge and experience.

But to answer your question KOTF, grappling defense, especially in BJJ and wrestling, is to hold on to your opponent until he gets tired of taking shots at you. Now if we go by what we've seen by the top grappling practitioners(excluding jubaji of course), once they get punched in the face(and they usually do) they shoot in so that you can't get velocity on your strikes. Then they either go for a double leg takedown or a sacrifice sweep which almost always puts them in the guard.

Once there, against a knife thrust, they would demonstrate the spiritual aspect of grappling and begin praying because they wouldn't have a snowball's shot in hell of doing anything except for bleeding on the guy with the knife. But that would make for an interesting contest:

Who passes out first? A guy in a triangle choke or the guy executing the triangle choke after getting stabbed in the ribs about 10 times?

Ponder that Pinky

The problem is everyone should be well rounded... so striking vs grappling is fairly narrow minded.

But to correct your previous statements... The greatest defense is usually a good offense. I would not hold someone on the ground and wait for them to tire, I would smash them to the ground(which 9 times out of ten is enough to stop the situation completly) and while they are obviously hurt and damaged, apply a quick and sudden hold and break their bone,rip their ligament, or otherwise create a limp limb.

Also, a good choke will take you out in seconds, good luck stabbing someone when the blood is rushing to your head and you biggest worry is not passing out... I'll take the chance that he might be able to stab me in order to make him pass out in seconds... that is, if I've already been stupid enough to allow him the option of keeping the weapon by the time we got that far.

[kingoftheforest]

The problem is everyone should be well rounded... so striking vs grappling is fairly narrow minded.

But to correct your previous statements... The greatest defense is usually a good offense. I would not hold someone on the ground and wait for them to tire, I would smash them to the ground(which 9 times out of ten is enough to stop the situation completly) and while they are obviously hurt and damaged, apply a quick and sudden hold and break their bone,rip their ligament, or otherwise create a limp limb.

Also, a good choke will take you out in seconds, good luck stabbing someone when the blood is rushing to your head and you biggest worry is not passing out... I'll take the chance that he might be able to stab me in order to make him pass out in seconds... that is, if I've already been stupid enough to allow him the option of keeping the weapon by the time we got that far.

I want to make sure I understand this right. You are saying that grappling is such a good art that you can disarm a knife wielding opponent with only grappling skills, and maybe on an off chance be cut superficially?

I'm serious that's how I read that please correct me J-Luck I really want to make sure I didn't misinterpret that.