knives

[Bob]

is it possible to beat a person that is holding a knife when your unarmed? i've only trained in muay thai but should i avoid fights because you'll never know if that guy has a knife or not?

[Jeff Liboiron]

Yeah, Bob. It is. I've done it twice. More recently last november. Many people in general have done the same as well as many people on this board, I'm sure.

I see you're from Vancouver. I'm located in Nanaimo, and teach self protection over here, so if you ever want to take the ferry over for some knife training then you are more than welcome to do so.

email me at LRFC@shaw.ca if you are interested.

[danzig]

unless you have a weapon with a longer "reach" than your opponent, run.

[Hardball]

Are we talking semi dull knives or razor sharp?

[Jiu-fu fighter]

.......plastic GI Joe knives, that you can get in those cool army packs found at the dollar store

but really, if there is a knife and you have no other choice but to fight, you dont really think about the size or sharpness of the knife

you react

[Hardball]

Capture and go for a wrist lock/break?

[Garland]

Run if you CAN, fight if running isn't an option. All training will help you do is give you more of a chance to survive the encounter. With anyone that survives a seriously intented knife attack, I'd say 80% is luck, 10% is training, 10% are good natural attributes like speed, agility, and anything that is a priori to a person.

that 80+10+10= 100% will to survive and serendipity working together.

...do people agree?

[Jiu-fu fighter]

To pose a quick question, here

I have never taken any unarmed knife defense before, but it seems almost every style has their own take on it, jiu jitsu, karate, taewon do, kung fu......etc..

but what would you reccomend as the best training for best use in a real knife encounter

[Garland]

but what would you reccomend as the best training for best use in a real knife encounter

Track and Field. Maybe some free running.

[Hardball]

To pose a quick question, here

I have never taken any unarmed knife defense before, but it seems almost every style has their own take on it, jiu jitsu, karate, taewon do, kung fu......etc..

but what would you reccomend as the best training for best use in a real knife encounter

1st choice is a Gun, 2nd Choice is to Run, 3rd Choice, if you have to fight, at least get some basic training with training knives and a qualified instructor.

[Tant01]

Pentjak Silat is knife fighting. To reduce your fear of the tool you must become comfortable with it by educating yourself on it's use.

You don't go into an operating room or trauma center and start cutting with a scalpel until you have had many years of education and training with qualified surgeons.

I suggest the same approach to fighting empty handed against a knifer.

The more you know the safer it becomes.

[darrianation]

What I have to work with rather good consistency is to jam the shoulder with one hand and just below the elbow with the other and apply forward pressure keeping contact then sliding the hand on his shoulder (or bicep it doesn’t seam to matter all that much) down to a two on one grip at the wrist.

[darrianation]

What I do more often, and works even better, is to perform the jam as above but as he retracts his knife arm back to strike again, with the forward pressure still in play, shove off hard and step to the outside laterally making space and draw the gun and shoot him before he can compensate and close the gap again.

The lateral movement needs to be dynamic (hard, fast, and violent) to make enough room to safely draw and engage the baddy with your firearm. This doesn’t always work but it works more often than it doesn’t. The other thing you can do if you can get the momentum is to run him backwards into walls or over obstacles that may trip him like a counter top, table, chair, or curb (for example).

If the other guy is too big and forces you back with his momentum the shove and lateral movement can push you away from him and his momentum will often carry him by you. So in-effect you have done the same thing.

The idea of disarms is a grizzly proposition, a skilled knifer is a force to be recond with but fortunately for us the criminal knifer or in the bar fight scenario the guy is often untrained with the knife and isn’t some expert. However, anyone with a knife in close proximity is always dangerous.

The most unfortunate thing is that in most cases a knife defense is mute because more often than not (by a large percentage) the victim of a successful knife attack rarely sees the knife before contact is made, many times he doesn’t even realize he has been stabbed until the fight is over.

[darrianation]

Mike: there are some out there who would call for your eternal damnation for even suggesting "shoving" away from a knife.

Mike I know that all too well. Sometimes what works in the real world isn’t what is being done in training. There goes another purist puffing up his chest strutting off mumbling about us infidels.

I suggest picking the biggest meanest guy in the gym, place a practice knife in his hand (metal for the “That fucking hurts” effect), don headgear with face masks (for safety), and the only thing said to the bad guy is on “go, attack”.

The baddy can be in forward grip, reverse grip, whatever he chooses. His attacks are unscripted. The idea is to let realistic pressure be the bench mark for filtering out the garbage and the measure-stick for "best practices". I think folks will be surprised just how little of their inventory of techniques actually works.

[darrianation]

Mike, we have come to the same conclusions and those conclusions more often than not came through experience not training...and that is "The simple things win fights".