A question of mind-set

[Sagacious Lu]

I'd like to discuss something I've heard from a lot of combatives advocates. The idea that in a self-defense situation you always want to assume that your opponent is armed makes a lot of sense to me. If your life is potentially on the line you certainly don't want to leave yourself vulnerable to a weapon even if you don't see it- not if you can help it anyway. Personally I think the fact that in the real world your opponent might surprise you with deadly force (a gun, knife or some other weapon) is one of the best reasons to avoid fights that I can think of. What I'd like to know from the combatives camp is what does this mean in terms of how you train? How do you put this into practice? How does this influence the way you handle a situation?

[Hardball]

I look for large and baggy clothes. It's almost a sure bet that the person is armed. Other than that I rely on verbal de escalation. If that doesn't work, My mind set is not to get sucker punched. Most people don't realize that a high percentage of fatal knife attacks include some type of punching or stomping. There is a saying that the thugs use in relation to a weapon---"You gotta get to it".. I turn the tide on them, they gotta get to their weapon before I get to them.

Professionals employ tactics like boot knives and ankle holsters. I don't worry about them because they are mostly defensive minded.

[darrianation]

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[Hardball]

I think if you assume anything in a fight you should only assume three things.

1. Your opponent is intent, determined, and capable of hurting you.
2. He is armed even if you do not see a weapon.
3. He has friends waiting to jump in and give you a boot party even if you don’t see them.

I wouldn't want to cloud my mind with unreasonable worries it will only slow my reaction time.

[Sagacious Lu]

I think if you assume anything in a fight you should only assume three things.

1. Your opponent is intent, determined, and capable of hurting you.
2. He is armed even if you do not see a weapon.
3. He has friends waiting to jump in and give you a boot party even if you don’t see them.

Okay, for the purposes of this thread lets skip deescalation; I think it's always better to talk your way out of trouble if possible but I'm curious about how this effects your response after it's already happened. Let's assume that you are attacked by one unarmed guy- as in he hauls off and tries to punch you. How does the assumption that he's armed and has friends influence your reaction? He's unarmed so if you escalate it and use a weapon you're likely to be arrested; you can't maim or kill someone just becasue you're not sure whether they're armed. At the same time you're trying to keep from getting stabbed by a knife that may or may not be there.

[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[shaolin-warrior]

All valid points, but where do you draw the line in the sand? When you have only seconds to realize the the true nature of the threat. How do you pick or decide what is a credible threat? Would you fight for your religious beliefs? What if someone was using profane language that your girlfriend or small child was offended by, would you politely ask the offender to stop? What if he then mouthed off, would you pursue this altercation to the point of violence? Would you fight over a possession? What if someone took 20 bucks from you, would you pursue this to the point of violence? What are your core values, or do they not even come into play when you feel threatened. Do you act on gut feeling or instinct? Or are you so secure in your abilities that you feel you have time to instantly comprehend the situation and take control of it?
I know that I've posed a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to get a glimpse of how other people might react the same situation, or what there mindset might be. Because I have a pretty good Idea that the street thug who intends to pick a fight has no moral compass. And if he has none, why should I hold myself to a higher moral ground than Him? If I do, am I weak?
These are my demons, help me to feed them.

[treelizard]

The obvious for me if there are multiple assailants with weapons is to stay off the ground if at all possible and to try to figure out an exit. Keep moving, keep your hands up, etc. There are specific ways you would move or not move assuming the other person has a weapon. Sayoc Kali is absolutely brilliant at this, at really thinking of every possible situation that could occur and coming up with appropriate responses...everything from which side of your arm you are using to block to positioning to a million other things... It is one of the few combat arts where you can really tell they have really thought out all the possibilities inside and out and made modifications (etc.) accordingly based on those, and there are probably no technical questions you could ask that they wouldn't have an answer for.

The other thing that comes to mind was when I first started training MMA one of the guys I was training with who knows our coach said "Holy shit, anybody could know this and (our coach) looks like a pretty unassuming guy I probably wouldn't have had second thoughts about starting a fight with!" So you carry yourself different when you keep where things could end up in mind. De-escalation is one thing but not being in those situations in the first place is another and barring that I always immediately take off when I start seeing strangers in groups and I'm hanging out say in a parking lot or something.

[darrianation]

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[Uke]

I think you shouldn’t have assumptions in the first place.

I think de-escalation in the criminal setting is a myth.

The number one murder scenario in America is the bar fight and they most always start off as a fist fight (usually after a build up period first). No one is unarmed unless you have xray vision and if they truly are unarmed they can still pick up a weapon from the environment at anytime.

How does that affect my response? I start as high up on the FORCE scale as I have the capability of doing at the time. If he is dumb enough to cross my line (enter my personal space with hostile intent) all I can say he’s dumb enough for the ICU. If all he can do is think of me as a piece of inhuman meat why should I show him any other consideration? All I can say is that sometimes stupid people pay for their stupidity.

Very well said.

[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[Tant01]

The foundation of the security mindset is built on paranoia and cynicism. You always assume something will happen, and you don’t believe in anything.



Become paranoid. Trust no one. Think like a bad guy.


Written by rmogull

http://securosis.com/2006/11/29/the-security-mindset/