Jujitsu in the real world

[gauol]

I'm looking to learn a martial art, Jujitsu and/or Judo both appeal to me. However I was wondering how useful these styles are in the real world? My intention is not to be starting anything, I simply wish the confidence that I could defend myself if needed.

I had originally wanted to go with Krav Maga but there are very few gyms in NH and are too far away. I also liked the philosophy of Akido but again no gyms nearby.

I welcome any suggestions and input.

Many thanks

[DickHardman]

learn how to strike first in my opinion, as you can use boxing or muay thai for simple self defense sooner than you will be able to use jiu jitsu and judo, as the learning curve for judo and jiu jitsu is a bit higher for self defense applications. then move on to grappling when you have a good base in some standup striking.

[gauol]

Yeah the general impression that I got was that BJJ or Judo were most optimize for the ground fight. It would seem to me that in most self-defense scenarios striking and the ability deflect a strike would be of most importance. Mind you I'm 28 and never been in a fight in my life so my impressions are not based on experience.

[jubaji]

Learn grappling first. Striking is easier to start later in life than grappling.

[Guest]

Just an important point I'd like to make to you, martial arts and self-defence are not as intrinsically linked as many beginners would like to believe. The physical response from any art, or no art, makes up only a fraction of the puzzle.

The psychology of confrontation is where most people succeed or fail, before any grappling or striking has taken place. Fear, adrenaline, verbal control, confidence, deception, the balls to make your move, and deal with the consequences.

Make sure that whatever art you choose, these areas are covered in the training, otherwise it leaves a big gap in what I believe you are looking for.

[Ghost]

Just an important point I'd like to make to you, martial arts and self-defence are not as intrinsically linked as many beginners would like to believe. The physical response from any art, or no art, makes up only a fraction of the puzzle.

The psychology of confrontation is where most people succeed or fail, before any grappling or striking has taken place. Fear, adrenaline, verbal control, confidence, deception, the balls to make your move, and deal with the consequences.

Make sure that whatever art you choose, these areas are covered in the training, otherwise it leaves a big gap in what I believe you are looking for.

would you say that arts/systems that use full contact sparring prepare people better mentally than those that dont for real combat?

[Guest]

In my opinion I think it takes a blend of factors.

I come across a lot of beginners who think that if they just learn the "what", i.e. the technique, then that’s self-defence. I believe its more about the why, where, how, who, when. I'm not a massive fan of endless scenario training i.e. putting on little plays at every class with people always shouting abuse at each other etc - a little of that goes a long way. I think its more about a teacher who can offer real life experience of how you are going to feel, the emotions, how best to control situations etc. This is of course in addition to good, solid, physical training. Purely cerebral martial artists tend to be the first ones to hit the deck.

But to answer your question (sorry Ghost) I do believe that full contact training is certainly an advantage. Physically, you aren't pretending to fight - you are fighting. Boxing is a great example, your key goal is to knock the other guy out, that’s what you train for. It translates well to the street where hands tend to be king, and distance and intent are crucial before the fight hits the ground. Mentally, full contact sparring of whatever nature can accustom the student to fear, adrenaline, confrontation, aggression etc. I have personally found it to be an advantage, however it has to be taught in a progression.

[Ghost]

In my opinion I think it takes a blend of factors.

I come across a lot of beginners who think that if they just learn the "what", i.e. the technique, then that’s self-defence. I believe its more about the why, where, how, who, when. I'm not a massive fan of endless scenario training i.e. putting on little plays at every class with people always shouting abuse at each other etc - a little of that goes a long way. I think its more about a teacher who can offer real life experience of how you are going to feel, the emotions, how best to control situations etc. This is of course in addition to good, solid, physical training. Purely cerebral martial artists tend to be the first ones to hit the deck.

But to answer your question (sorry Ghost) I do believe that full contact training is certainly an advantage. Physically, you aren't pretending to fight - you are fighting. Boxing is a great example, your key goal is to knock the other guy out, that’s what you train for. It translates well to the street where hands tend to be king, and distance and intent are crucial before the fight hits the ground. Mentally, full contact sparring of whatever nature can accustom the student to fear, adrenaline, confrontation, aggression etc. I have personally found it to be an advantage, however it has to be taught in a progression.

yeah i agree with that 100% mate, very good analysis.

[gauol]

I did some looking and that when I start my new job in 3 weeks I will actually be in range (within 10-20 minutes) of a Muay Thia and Krav Maga studio. I Will investigate these studios after I start my job. Unfortunately boxing will be too far away.

Thanks for all the help and if you have any other suggestions I still be interested in hearing.

[darrianation]

But to answer your question (sorry Ghost) I do believe that full contact training is certainly an advantage. Physically, you aren't pretending to fight - you are fighting. Boxing is a great example, your key goal is to knock the other guy out, that’s what you train for. It translates well to the street where hands tend to be king, and distance and intent are crucial before the fight hits the ground. Mentally, full contact sparring of whatever nature can accustom the student to fear, adrenaline, confrontation, aggression etc. I have personally found it to be an advantage, however it has to be taught in a progression.

Michael, if you would care to comment, there seams to be two schools of thought one being sparring should be used conservatively because it can develop tag-like tendencies in the fighter i.e. give and take or symetrical fighting.

Whereas a purely combative system is an all or nothing event, where in the ideal situation one combatant is doing all the fighting and the other is standing there getting hit or trying to cover, asymetrical. I think that is why many in the combatives community prefer to work on Bobs or against opponents wearing bullet man suits downplaying dojo/ring types of sparring.

Personally I think I am somewhere in the middle of the two preferring limited sparring drills that develop a specific skill and not just a free-for-all.

[Hardball]

Take Japanese Jujitsu and learn it all. Striking, locking, throwing, weapons and grappling.

[Guest]

Always happy to comment darrianation, and I think your post asks very good questions.

From a JKD/PFS background many a year has been spent hammering a fully padded guy in a motorbike helmet. This allows for your ultimate goal to materialise, i.e. to completely overwhelm the opponent as opposed to, as you rightly say, some form of tagging match.

On the other hand, the benefit I have found in the Boxing and Thai Boxing arena is that you are tested against a fully resisting, aggressive, skilfull opponent. You learn to appreciate that things don't always go your way, you learn how you respond when you get hit and hurt, and for me most importantly you learn to keep going when you are losing - a very important mindset for real life altercations.

So, to answer your question: experience both, appreciate both, and overcome both.

[darrianation]

Always happy to comment darrianation, and I think your post asks very good questions.

From a JKD/PFS background many a year has been spent hammering a fully padded guy in a motorbike helmet. This allows for your ultimate goal to materialise, i.e. to completely overwhelm the opponent as opposed to, as you rightly say, some form of tagging match.

On the other hand, the benefit I have found in the Boxing and Thai Boxing arena is that you are tested against a fully resisting, aggressive, skilfull opponent. You learn to appreciate that things don't always go your way, you learn how you respond when you get hit and hurt, and for me most importantly you learn to keep going when you are losing - a very important mindset for real life altercations.

So, to answer your question: experience both, appreciate both, and overcome both.

Good answer.

I've gone back and forth on this issue for a long time. I have finally come up with there are important lessons to learn form both.

[DickHardman]

Yeah the general impression that I got was that BJJ or Judo were most optimize for the ground fight. It would seem to me that in most self-defense scenarios striking and the ability deflect a strike would be of most importance. Mind you I'm 28 and never been in a fight in my life so my impressions are not based on experience.

deflecting a strike is great, but keep in mind grappling comes into play quite often as well. however, i say striking is better to be learned first only because of the fact that you are most likely going to be able to use use striking skills sooner than you could grappling if you are a total beginner. cause even after the first lesson in boxing, your punching technique should have improved way more than what it was before. grappling however, for some beginners, it can take much preparation and time before you gain enough skill to be effective and consistent. i mean, if you are training in judo, you are going to have to spend a good deal of time just learning breakfalls/ukemi before you even learn throws or grappling. boxing will get you right down to things you can use immediately, like punching better, covering up and deflecting blows, etc... judo and jiu jitsu have TONS to offer and are totally worth training in, however, learn some simple striking first so you can have something to defend yourself with as soon as possible.

[Ghost]

yeah to further what mike said, after stepping in the ring for the first time something changes, others told me about this but i experienced it too. sparring seems slower, your skill level rockets up. basically your mental boundaries shift. people that i thought were near my equal i had less trouble sparring against.
i think when you take yourself to higher levels of combat you push the envelope. maybe for a soldier its the difference in feeling of just training and having a life engagement with a real enemy.
i think its invaluable tool in self defense but telling non-sport orientated martial artists to step in the ring is a non-starter for the most part.