i need help please

[no-name]

hi guys.. i'm a 19 yr old guy from australia and i am a little bit overweight atm.. however right now i'm trying to lose all these weight and do so by going to the gym and do alot of weight training/resistance training and also cardio (mostly bikes rpms classes and also jogging).. however where i currently work at (a bar), there is this group of serbian guys that likes to pick on me for whatever reason it is.. i've also heard that these people are trained kickboxers.. but they just would not leave me alone and they are always at my work every weekend... so i was looking for ways in which i could defend against these guys if anything were to happen.. one of my friend at work suggested krav maga.. i wanted to do this however it would cost me around $600-700/yr if i join KM.. and after reading around on the net.. i've found out that krav maga only works against normal civilians not trained kickboxers..

so my question is (and yes i will keep continuing train my cardio level, strength and punch and kicks via heavy bags) what could i learn out there to defend myself against these guys? i wouldn't mind using dirty tactics as long as i don't get hurt and could defend myself (2 months ago one of the guy punched me to the back of my jaw behind my back and i had to get it reconstructed).. the only school that i can find in adelaide is krav maga school which teaches brazilian jiujitsu as well (the instructor is a blackbelt).. do you think if i trained in these 2 i would be able to defend myself on the street against even trained fighters.. thanks alot

[chillaplata]

A group of guys is showing up at your workplace every weekend and harrassing you? They've already assaulted you at least once and broken (?) your jaw? Dude, the martial arts technique you need to learn is picking up the phone and dialing 911 (or whatever number you need to call for the police in your area).

I'm not trying to discourage you from training in martial arts -- I think it's a good idea for anyone, especially someone who works in as rough an environment as you apparently do. You've got to realize though that (i) it will take you time (probably at least six months depending on what you are training and your background, athleticism, etc.) for you to be able even to begin applying the techniques you've learned in an actual fight and (ii) even a highly trained martial artist would have a hard time taking on a group of assailants, especially a group of trained kickboxers.

Speak with your employer and see if he will hire some security. Then call the police immediately the next time these guys start acting up. It may even make sense to file a police report on the assault two months ago -- the cops may not be able to do much at this point, but at least you are building a record and alerting them to the seriousness of the situation. Finally, if your employer refuses to protect you and the police can't help, find another job...your safety is more important than a paycheck.

[chillaplata]

Sorry to duplicate some of what Mr. Brewer said ... posted my reply before I saw his.

[no-name]

Sorry to duplicate some of what Mr. Brewer said ... posted my reply before I saw his.

yes i understand that i needed to call the police.. but what i won't be protected by the police all the time if you get what i mean.. offcourse i will take precaution like u stated.. i've also talked to my employer about this and they have been warned that they will be banned from the place.. but one of them threatened that they will do much worst to me if one of our security do anything to them..

this is why i needed to do something about defending myself.. i mean that is true that i will not come out unscratched.. i understand this.. but the least that i could do is to come out of the fight a winner like u said (meaning they dont beat me up and permanently damage myself).. i just really want to be able to defend myself and become a good fighter..

my question is would krav maga help my cause? because the only self defence place in adelaide that i could find atm is krav maga.. there was 1 muaythai gym in the city but it has been closed down around 12 weeks ago

[chillaplata]

Hi no-name,

Are you thinking of training at this school?

(Krav Maga - Street Defensive Tactics teaches Krav Maga in Adelaide and seminars in Sydney and Melbourne Australia)

I have no combatives or krav maga background, and it's hard to judge from a website, but this school looks pretty good to me for a few reasons:
- they seem to emphasize live training
- some of the instructors seem to have extensive security experience and experience training military personnel
- they emphasize the importance of tactical awareness, preparedness, managing confrontations, etc.

I would say try the free classes and see how your like it. If many of your fellow students are cops, bouncers and others who may actually need to use self-defense techniques regularly, that would be a good sign.

You might also consider keeping a truncheon or baton behind the bar. A non-lethal weapon like that could be the equalizer if these guys assault you again. I have no idea what is and is not permitted under Australian self-defense laws, but I would think most cops or juries would look sympathetically on someone who pulls a truncheon against a gang of attackers (particularly a gang of kickboxers who have already broken his jaw). On the other hand, I would not carry a knife if I were you -- the risks seem to me too great that (i) your attackers may take your knife away and use it against you or (ii) you may be in serious legal trouble if you end up stabbing one of them. (I don't know if the people harrassing you are likely to be armed -- I assume they are probably not carrying guns, in view of Australia's strict gun control laws, but if they have other weapons and you pull a weapon of your own things may get ugly fast.)

I hope you enjoy training at the KM school, and through a combination of training and support from police and security you are able to handle this situation.

[Tom Yum]

Focusing on the martial arts aspect, if you find yourself at a good gym with good instructors - what you learn, will work.

A friend of mine got into an altercation a few years back, when someone's dog wandered over to him, started growling and bit into his boot. He was minding his own business, just going straight from point A to his car. He tried to shoe the dog away - not really trying to hurt it, but just get it off so he could get into his car.

The owner of the dog came out and started accosting my friend, with the dog still attached to his boot. Something happened where the guy approached him and my friend axe elbowed the guy across the face - split him open from eye, across the nose and to his cheek.

Didn't knock the guy out, but it staggered him really, really good and wounded him pretty badly. Anything more, might have been outside what is considered justifiable self-defense.

[DickHardman]

i dont mean to get off topic, as homie here needs some real help.


but jsut out of curiosity mike, how did u end up breaking that one dudes neck?? did you strike him or was it like one of those steven seagal neck snap moves???? was it an accident or was this guy so out of control that he needed to be seriously injured immediately? whats the deal.

[Tom Yum]

I think it boils down to etiquette, again. You're supposed to be a training-partner and are there to learn. Bad on him.

[no-name]

just took my first class today.. and i loved it!! however one thing that i was concern about krav maga is more about defending yourself only by running out of the situation.. in real life situations there are alot that can happen for example if you're with your girlfriend and suddenly someone attacks you.. offcourse you can run but what will happen with your girlfriend? i tried asking the krav instructor this and they think that i'm looking for a streetfight..

it kind of upsets me because im being serious about street defense.. but if you guys have more input on which other practice i can do please give input.. or should i stick to krav?

[chillaplata]

I think you should explain your situation to the krav instructor, if you haven't already done so. Emphasize that you are not looking for a fight, and you have already done all you can to prevent future attacks by alerting the police and your employer to the problem, but you want to learn to protect yourself as best you can if you are attacked again.

BTW congratulations on starting training -- best of luck!

[Hardball]

Not being able to own a gun sucks. U.K. and Australia laws suck big time.

[DJColdfusion]

#1: Don’t train because you are afraid of somebody knocking you around. If there is a specific person or a group of specific individuals who are threatening you then you MUST contact your local police about it. If they are bugging you at the bar you work at then talk to management and get them to ban the people causing the problem.

#2: Continuing with #1, Train because you love to train and the ability to defend yourself will come. Train out of love for the art not fear of a person.

#3: Mike Brewer kicked me back in 1999 and it still hurts.

[Hardball]

Yea he is in a precarious position because the bad guys have a code. "Snitches get Stitches" Going to the police is no guarentee of a successful outcome. Bad Guys respect you when you stand up for yourself. The problem is, it sounds like you need a weapon and the law is not in your favor.

Quitting (evasion) like Mike B suggested sounds like the best option right now.

[Guest]

Train because you love to train and the ability to defend yourself will come. Train out of love for the art not fear of a person.

That's the best thing I have read on this forum.

[Tom Yum]

I've always believed that we train at the intensity of the junior partner, and so I always let the other guy take the lead. If they are trying to show off or hurt me, I will not trust them to work with my students. If they really try to hurt me, I'll defend myself. If they're trying to be bullies about it, I'll hurt them and throw them out on the sidewalk while they're still unconscious. I just never developed any tolerance for that kind of shit.

As for the mental aspect, you see it all over the place. It's usually the overly sensitive types that take offense at the littlest thing and then fire back with asymetric intensity. You say something that someone takes the wrong way, and all of a sudden, the guy wants to "Kill you, motherfucker!" The threats and posturing and intimidation are probes. The intention is to see whether or not you'll fold, because if you fold to that kind of intimidation, you'll be a more willing victim. It only goes up from there. It's like when you apologize to someone for a misunderstanding and all they want to do is get meaner and nastier? They weren't offended at all. They were looking for a reason to screw with you, and that kind of posturing is their way of justifiying dickish behavior. All you can do is recognize the behavior for whta it is and act accordingly - which is to say don't entertain stupidity, and don't belittle yourself by making concessions to a bully. Just knock the shit out of them (figuratively or literally) and move on.

Good stuff, Mike.

In general, I've found alot of cool people in the martial arts community - and I mean lenient and cool headed. Usually not ones to initially respond to shit talking, instigation and other tactics, but when they do, these kinds of things rarely happen again.