i need help please

[Guest]

You're really going to try to claim that the courts are going to believe poisoning a customer in an establishment is self defense?? Are you calling the police before or after you poison them? Have you told the owner or manager you're poisoning customers? We aren't talking Cyanide here, this isn't an instant incapacitation, you have time to retreat or get help it isn't self defense it's assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder of someone who hasn't laid a hand on you or presented a weapon.

You'll have to help me out here captain, I have no idea where I typed a single word of what you just wrote, but thats OK - you're very good at rolling your eyes.

[TTEscrima]

Don't confuse self defense with murder...

Exactly.

[chillaplata]

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry some kind of mace or pepper spray (assuming that is legal in Oz). Of course, there's the risk the bad guys will take it away from you and use it on you. But if you're in a position where you have to use the spray, you're probably facing a serious ass-kicking in any event, so I'm not sure how much additional downside you have from carrying the spray.

I was watching one of those MSNBC "Lockdown" shows at the gym the other day, and I saw that the guards at San Quentin (who of course aren't allowed to carry firearms into the cell tiers) carry batons and chemical sprays. These guys have to deal with the threat of gang attacks, weapons, etc. every day, so it would probably make sense to learn from and if possible imitate how they arm themselves. Some of them also carry tasers, but I doubt that would be legal in Oz...

[TTEscrima]

You'll have to help me out here captain, I have no idea where I typed a single word of what you just wrote, but thats OK - you're very good at rolling your eyes.

It's the subject of the thread since Mike Brewer advocated it and said he had done it many times and you popped in and equated stabbings etc done to survive a assault to poisoning customers at an establishment you're employed at.

Originally Posted by Michael Wright
If its got serious enough to blind someone, cripple someone, stab someone or shoot someone....then its got serious enough to poison someone.

Caught up now or should I retype it slower? Come the **** on, give it up it was bad advice likely to ruin your life and a far cry from reasonable or self defense.

[Guest]

I stand by that quote, I just never said I would try to defend it as self defence, in court or otherwise.

And... "Come the **** on, give it up" ? Hey fella, that may be the way it worked in the Navy, but you'll have to wine me and dine me a bit first

[Garland]

I will say one thing...plausible deniability.

If you have access to a poison that is used...and somebody knows and can trace shit back...you are screwed. So...take from that what you will.

(must I write "habeas corpus is not a mantra" on the chalkboard 50 times.)

[TTEscrima]

The people I feel a need to prepare for in the real world are those who wouldn't flinch at jamming a pen in my eye or poisoning my drink or even blowing up my car. Short of those types of people, everyone else is just a niusance I can walk away from. And how often am I really going to run into the truly "dangerous" ones anyway?

Better to keep it in perspective, remind yourself - even through trying to imagine the worst things you could do to someone else - what lengths a bad guy might go to in order to hurt you, and then decide if it's really worth it. If it's not worth "doing anything and everything" then it may not be worth doing anything at all.

You ARE the those people chum, you're poisoning customers, you're no different than any other criminal scumbag, you act like you're showing how tough you are when you really just showed how low you'll sink over BS. It's clear that honor and integrity are foreign concepts to you, since you claim to have done this multiple times thus, I'll waste no more time on your "story" tell it to the young and inexperienced who don't see it for what it is. You're either full of BS about spiking drinks with visine or you're bragging about criminal activity.

I HAVE done it. More than once. I never saw bleeding or dead customers, either. I did see vomiting customers who were eager to leave, though.

Then you need to contact Visine, snopes and the medical profession and set them straight.

Interesting that you claim you did it, and then told us about it and recommended it to someone who asked for advice, but NOW you were just kidding to teach us a lesson. Dude, thats WEAK.

Frankly, I think the facts of the case lean far more rationally toward leaving and finding a new bar job. I mean - it's a f*cking bar job, right? And there's no getting your honor back after letting these guys walk all over you the way they have. So leave and work someplace else.

There's a certain degree of tongue in cheek with my posts, TTE. I've always said that if it's worth fighting over, it ought to be worth fighting mean and nasty over. And if it's not worth facing somebody who's going to fight mean and nasty back - find a different solution. Personally? I'd never have let them intimidate me into not calling the cops in the first place, and if they had broken my jaw, I'd have made sure they paid for it in court. Failing that, I'd go find another bar job down the road. It's Australia for chrissake. There's probably 15 more pubs on the same block! All I'm saying is that if it comes down to fighting - if violence is the only option you have left - then to hell with half-measures. Poison the sonofabitch and beat him to death in the bathroom.

And if that option makes you a little queasy (here's the lesson, champs), then maybe what you're all pissed off about isn't really worth fighting over, eh?

Uh yeah, So giving bad advice that you think is funny in a thread where someone asks for help is acceptable as the moderator of a Martial art forum?

You weren't joking or teaching a moral lesson until after I came into the thread after it was dead and revived it.

[TTEscrima]

All of the above is strictly for information purposes, and was designed to show you how silly fighting of this type is. Your best bet is really to take your case to the police, especially the whole reconstructed jaw issue.

Nice addition after the fact, this WAS NOT here before today Mike. You just added it. Had there been a disclaimer it certainly would have been brought up sooner eh?(And I'd have never bother posting in the thread) ROFLMAO.

No sense beating a dead horse, I'm done here.

[jubaji]

TTExcrement, such a champion.

[jubaji]

People boast about teaching the real deal in self-protection, and they talk a blue streak about "doing whatever is necessary." But then they get all squeamish and wishy washy when someone else suggests something truly underhanded or violent. That shows you're full of shit. Plainly and simply, completely full of shit - if you're one of those people who talks about "doing anything and everything necessary." .

He truly is a theory-boy. Probably been trying to grow his own ponytail for years now.

[Garland]

Uh...ok...let's take a cease fire with some movie clips everybody can enjoy!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzm7H2ox6Us[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GsDkd6iTUI[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRlnaIHMEdk[/YOUTUBE]

[kingoftheforest]

If you're pissed at TTE leave the rest of us out of it.

The reason I've taken a recent interest is because I find the exposure of hypocrisy fun. People boast about teaching the real deal in self-protection, and they talk a blue streak about "doing whatever is necessary." But then they get all squeamish and wishy washy when someone else suggests something truly underhanded or violent. That shows you're full of shit. Plainly and simply, completely full of shit - if you're one of those people who talks about "doing anything and everything necessary." You cannot have it both ways, doing both "anything and everything necessary" and "not playing dirty." People in your camp have puffed out their chests before and talked about cheating to win and not playing by the rules because "there are no rules in the street." Yet when someone suggests that there truly are no rules and literally "anything" goes, what do we get? Preachers, Lawyers, and the Mythbusters.

I don't give a rat ass Mike what kind of beef you and TTE have right now but I am respectfully going to say this one more time for the benefit of the cheap seats and non season ticket holders....................................................


By no definition in any court, tribunal, inquisition, or under the monkey bars, will you find anyone condoning poisoning of any kind as an act of self defense.

Self defense is a reaction to an immediate threat. You can't poison someone without premeditation and you have never heard anyone from this camp condone or advise anything close to this. I am not going to sit by and ideally watch you place my name on anything remotely close to poisoning as some kind of bullshit self defense move.

If you gotta plan ahead to get one specific person or group of people it is no longer self defense it is premeditated assault. I practice self defense not head hunting or assassination techniques used by eunuchs and women in ancient Egypt.

Thank you kindly.

[Tant01]

For the matter of fact the guy may as well drink the poison himself and take a few Oxycodone with it to enhance his alcahol... Getting all pissy about some pussy bar tender is hardly worth the stress...

[jubaji]

You don't really think the content of that post was KOTF's original work, do you?

You-know-who is lurking and telling his minions what to say, if not dictating to them word for word.

[kingoftheforest]

Your posts itself speaks volumes more than I could

Well, KOTF, for those who have trouble with their reading comprehension, I never specifically said you did condone poisoning, so take a minute, go untwist your panties, and kindly reserve the self-righteousness for someone else. I also don't remember saying "KOTF" at any time, anywhere in that post. You're reading into it, your distorting what was said, and your temper tantrum attempts to get me to edit this particular opinion are going to be fruitless, I promise.

I was not talking about poisoning. I was talking about "doing whatever it takes to win." That includes premeditative measures. In fact, by virtue of the words I chose, it includes "anything it takes to win."

My point was not that you or anyone else in your immediate vicinity has ever advocated poisoning. My point was that at least one member of your immediate training group has postured up on many occasions with the "There are no rules in a real fight" line. That same member has made it clear on too many occasions to list that "Sport Fighters" and their ilk are dangerously irresponsible because they do not consider the realities of a fight in their preparations. Those same people have suggested that all the things that are illegal in the ring are great starting points for what might work in a real fight.

Then along comes Brewer talking pure, admitted smack and TTE gets all religious about how cowardly and immoral it is to fight dirty. As if that weren't enough, now you come in with the whiny two-step complaining that I've unfairly accused you of something I never actually said, and frankly that's tiresome. I've been nice before. I've talked to you one on one before, and you know I am not one to pull my punches or censor my opinions. TTE insinuated that I am a liar and a fraud because I posted that I've juiced people's drinks with Visine before (which is true - I have). He also insinuated the same when he wrongly stated that I went back and edited in a disclaimer. I did no such thing. He's full of shit - completely - and he didn't read my post. Bottom line. He's wrong. He's mistaken. He's full of shit. I don't expect him to admit that, but it's no less true.

Now, onto your getting all unassed that I'd include you in the "some in your camp" statement...

Boar - someone in his camp - has not only said that but proven himself to be a hypocrite on the subject several times. He lambasted me when I said I'd stab an armed man with a pen, even though that's pretty timid by "do whatever it takes" standards. If you aren't tough enough to read honest critiques of what I see as inconsistent attitudes, then put me on ignore and quit reading what I write. Simple as that. But the fact remains (and you have to admit this if you're being honest with yourself), you cannot say "Do whatever it takes to win in a real fight" or "There's no such thing as cheating when it's for real" and then qualify that statement by saying "except all this stuff over here."

You have to be honest enough to say that either you really do have "no rules," meaning it's as okay to poison someone as it is to beat them with a brick in the restroom as it is to jab them in the nose with a closed fist, or you have to admit that you have some lines that you won't cross because you find them distasteful. You cannot maintain that it's okay to do whatever it takes and then call someone a coward for doing what it takes.

The reason you're so uncomfortable with all of this is that I've just shown you a major hole in your fighting philosophy and training. You thought you had it all figured out and that you really were training for "whatever it takes." But that's just not true, is it? Apparently, there are several things that you're not okay with.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for TTE (and you too KOTF, if you think it's necessary to jump in and insert yourself everytime I mention TTE's "camp") to sit down and make a list of all the things you don't really think are "okay." Jot them all down. You know - like the MMA people did. That way, you'll have your own set of rules to abide by in real fights, complete with the exclusions and prohibitions your particular "sport" requires. I think that process might be healthy. Might shed some light on why other arts advocate some things and not others, and why it's so dangerous for you to go around banging on the "They aren't really training for reality because they have rules" drum all the damned time.

...........................whatever