real life vs sparring

[glendanfig]

this came out of a discussion i had wit a good friend of mine.

can you really become a lethal human weapon by just training in a gym, dojo, ect. will martial arts alone make you this? or does one have to experience real world scenarios in which the training is taken to another level? can you only learn certain things from combat? or can you train for combat and be just as good never having to actually apply it? is spar just as good as fighting for your life or someone else's life? i understand that one must learn these things before u can stand a chance in the real world, but does experiencing them in real life(out side of a controlled setting) improve your training?

this is just a quick post im making cause i got finals, but i hope you guys can understand a little bit of what i am asking...

[glendanfig]

my position on this is:
some training you just cant get outside of service(military, police, special forces etc...). i understand many of these agencies receive training from martial artists, but i believe their application is what makes them lethal and/or effective. one can read and train all they want but actually using it to attack/defend in the real world is priceless training in it self.
guess its all training after all...
i personally want to learn as much as possible, absorb all the knowledge that i can so that one day if i do need to use it i will be confident as well as able to execute.

[bigboywasim]

All we can do is be prepared at best. No one knows what will happen in the future. It is best to be aware and alert and understand the difference of the street and gym/dojo. The best way to be alert and aware of the street is through military/police training. Carry a gun if legal. Know how to use it well. I would also carry a knife if legal as I like it better close range.

Understanding the law is important too. For example in California if you shoot someone who is trying break into your home you can spend many years behind bars. In Texas you will be have no problems as long as it was reasonable.

For self defense I like Muay Boron (strikes), GJJ (ground), Arnis traditional weapons (multiple opponents).

Martial arts open your mind. They help you to become physically as well as mentally fit for self defense.

[kingoftheforest]

Dad tell me a story

There are some things you can only learn in combat. The amount of stress and the gap in your reaction timings cannot be learned outside of a real life situation.

Everybody's mind acts differently during the stress of real combat. People train their reflexes and minds as best they can but the fact of the matter is, if you have never dealt with that kind of stress you just can't be sure how you will react.

Tis is the reason seasoned combat vets can tell a lot of the time when guys are telling shit stories. People who really have been there done that, know there are a lot of things you won't remember and a lot of shit that gets pulled off on T.V. that just doesn't happen in a real situation.

It's like when you are a teenager and you have guys in the locker room who are virgins talking shit like they got laid. You can tell a lot of the time the guys who have never even seen a nude women out of a magazine trying to act like they got some.

[phatbeard]

If you want to be a soldier join the army, if you want to learn how arrest someone join the police, if you want to learn how to operate a lazer target designator behind enermy lines, join the sf's.

These professions are professions they are not the be all and end all of self protection, as for being best to train street awareness, maybe in basra, maybe in a car with a radio and full station backup at the end of that radio, not for a guy going to work on a monday morning.

If you want to feel street awareness, move your home and your family to the worst district you can think of and put your most precious posessions on display, you will be more aware of your surroundings than you've ever been in your life.

As an example, a friend of mine a few years back had just returned from bagdad, walked into the local pub and ended up in hospital, a few guy's that he had bother with back in school (this was 7/8 years after leaving) turned him over and gave him a hiding as he was leaving the place. AWARENESS, not there.

We are all human and though these professions can give you skills that transfer to self protection, they are just professions with specific purpose, Soldier=to kill the enemy, Police officer=to serve and protect. These guy's are rarely alone (ie.partners, radio backup, air support, squad, platoon etc), rarely have their wife and kids with them, are not walking home from school looking for the school bully/gang, not walking home drunk etc.

Switch on and be aware of your surroundings and the people/cars/areas around you, become a hard target, walk with purpose, listen to your instincts and remember be HAPPY.

And remember, all the guy's mentioned, police, army, SF's their training in street and civilian self protection is almost non-existent, in my very limited time in the forces-no training for this what so ever, plenty of room/house clearance, plenty of range time, loads of walking up and down in step, no H2H no "street awareness" lots of calling in air strikes and jumping out of vehicles to attack a defensive position. No dealing with road rage cos you've parked your car in a nieghbours parking space.

[phatbeard]

Posted that without finishing, doh.

What I was trying to put across is, yes these professions can help prepare you for a civilian world altercation but thats not what there about in any way what so ever.

Yes a fight on the street will teach you more about yourself and your competency in a "street fight" than sparring but you might be killed, not impossible but unlikely in sparring and sparring does help prepare you for fighting and people need to look beyond the "i was special forces" stuff beyond the "I worked the door stuff and had 2000 fights" these are jobs you get paid to do.

A mugger won't know that and won't care while he's stuffing half a brick in the back of your head and running off with your gucci loafers. He won't care a jot because your not AWARE if you where he probably not going to target you.

[DickHardman]

thats a great post phatbeard.

[KirkhamsEbooks.]

Wish I knew why everytime someone talks about realistic training sparring comes up

The Myth of The Ultimate Martial Arts Drill by Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc.
There seems to be a prevalent myth that a common martial arts drill is some kind of ultimate drill. That if you become adept at this drill, you'll be able to defend yourself in any type of attack in the street. Martial arts instructors have developed drills to improve this drill and others have made it an integral part of a sport.

Rick