Mugging in NYC

[Garland]

As I said earlier, Garland can't do it, and can't fathom anyone else doing it. So it has to be theory in his mind. I know the results are very repeatable for a fact.

Further proof of jubaji's and Garland's glaring ignorance is that knives are not known for their stopping power unless you physically make it impossible for an attacker to continue. Men have had their arms and legs sliced up, stabbed in the belly, stabbed in the chest and kept going.

They have no idea about what really happens so they take their cues from movies and books. It seems so impossible to them because all of their training hasn't prepared them to deal with anything outside of fair fist fights.

I can tell you that fights that include weapons don't go on for even 60 seconds unless somebody is running, in which case it ain't even a fight.

Clowns like jubaji and Garland want people believe that we are saying that its impossible to win using sports like kickboxing or wrestling.

1) Show me somebody, besides youself, who wouldn't agree that a knife coming into play is bad for the defender's health unless there is a great deal of luck...the best training does is slightly increase your odds of survival. Or do you agree...is it likely a no-win situation?

2) People can be reslient...but more people die from stabbings than gunshot wounds. It all depends on where they stab you, the length of the knife, and if they continue to stab you and beat you. Essentially, it depends on the knifer's intent, knowledge, and what their weapon is, as well as luck on your side of the fence and whatever your responses are, whether they are intelligent and effective or not. Training is a minor component...luck is the major one. Awareness, avoidance, and intelligence are the gold standard. (Look at the humanitarian habitat idea of Herminio Binas) If somebody slashes at you once, yeah, you're a little better off and might be able to walk away...if somebody thrusts several times, your survival rate goes downhill rapidly.

3) Yeah, agreed.

4) Never have made that statement, or anything like it, never will.

[jubaji]

Some theory boy?.

Yeah, like you.

That would be you boy, you know, the poser who has never been in combat or made an arrest.

Oh, so we are talking about military and law enforcement training? When did the topic shift? And, I don't think you should exclude KOTF from the discussion just because he has never been in combat.

You're the definition of a theory boy, you spend all your time theorizing how your sport could be used for something it isn't designed for, SD..

Nope, I only speak from my own actual experience and something you are not familiar with called common sense. As I recall, some of my experience made you feel all insecure for some reason because you could not claim the same. There are many reasons for a clown like you to feel inferior, but that really shouldn't be one of them.

Meanwhile you've spent years making thousands upon thousands of inane and derogatory posts about the systems and people who practice arts designed for SD. .

What systems have I denigrated?

That makes you a pissed off little jealous theory boy who was too scared to join the military or police.

So again we are talking about military and police training? Does his lack of combat experience leave KOTF out again? Maybe we need to start a new thread.

It's amazingly Ironic YOU calling someone that has been involved in more combat in a day than you've watched on TV your entire life, that defines YOU as the theory boy in this discussion. .

If you want to start a thread about fighting under fire in an actual war zone I'll be sure not to contradict you since I have not had that experience. Of course you would then try to use that as a way of talking about things and we'd inevitably disagree again.

stop referring to Vets discussing SD as theory boys. Show some respect for those who risked their lives to enable you the freedom to show what a piss ant you really are by disrespecting their service as you type from the safety they provided you.

Now this is just shameless. Trying to use "don't hate the vets!" to cover your every asinine argument is an absolute disgrace. Apparently you have no shame or self-respect, but don't besmirch good people in the process of making an ass of yourself.

[Garland]

And then Garland would argue that we can't possibly prove that sumo couldn't work

AND just to be argumentative...
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It's what people with religion believe...and similar to your dialectical style...in which you reject all other opposing evidence and twist what you consider fact to the limit to fit your farcicle hypotheses.

[Garland]

And I'm done for the week. I'll be in San Diego and Oceanside CA visiting a friend. Ciao for now.

[TTEscrima]

Awareness, avoidance, and intelligence are the gold standard.

Agreed, and sport arts aren't known for teaching any of those attributes. In fact if you look at the actions and statements of the MMA crowd its apparent they're alien concepts. Ask any RBSD guy the quickest way to get shot and he will tell you its to charge into a confrontation with a stranger while wearing a martial arts uniform or gear like Alex Gong did. Ask the quickest way to to limit your ability to see whats going on and he'll tell you its to go to the ground. Ask the fastest way to limit your ability to avoid trouble and it will be also going to the ground. Wearing your school shirt/no fear shirt, stupid hair cuts and tattoos all identify you, none of those are intelligent actions if SD is your goal, you might as well try wrestling multiple opponents armed with knives. Intelligence is avoiding closing the gap and grappling with potentially armed opponents instead of doing the exact opposite.

[Tant01]

Here's an idea? Lets all try to be a little more civil? It seems clear that there is a broad spectrum of views on mortality and individual capabilities. It is foolish to assume any ONE thing may be "REASONABLE" in any two situations.

[TTEscrima]

Nope, I only speak from my own actual experience and something you are not familiar with called common sense. As I recall, some of my experience made you feel all insecure for some reason because you could not claim the same.

OMFG. DUDE, your claims in the BS story you posted tied for first place in the equivalent to a hog contest for the most ridiculous claims about a fight people could find on the net, not only is it utterly hysterical, the fact you're trying to claim that it makes people insecure just demonstrates how little understanding you really have of fights much less edged weapon encounters facing multiple opponents.

As for my comments about my experience as a vet, yep JR over a 20 year career period I had too many situations to count that involved multiple armed and hostile grown men who had to be detained in combat zones or extracted from their homes or vehicles by hand. I'd say that qualifies me to speak on violence more than your activities on the mat at school with other schoolboys. Somehow you think your rolling around with school boys in spandex is something other people envy you for, it isn't.

[TTEscrima]

Here's an idea? Lets all try to be a little more civil? It seems clear that there is a broad spectrum of views on mortality and individual capabilities. It is foolish to assume any ONE thing may be "REASONABLE" in any two situations.

Well when your every post is quoted and your screename changed to include the sexual fantasies of a pervert, the standard for civility accepted by the site is rather ambiguous. Add the fact that the major violator is repeatedly allowed to flaunt the fact that he is immune to the sites rules posted everywhere. Now factor in that if someone dares to insult the resident mongrel back they're warned about the forum rules for RESPONDING to his attacks.

The Rules of this forum are as followed.

1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS
2. Inappropriate content will not be tolerated.

Anyone want to bet I can find over a thousand violations of the first rule alone by the resident troll? Lord only knows how many of his posts fit the second rule. Yet the ONLY time anything is said is when someone gives it back to him.

[jubaji]

Further proof of jubaji's and Garland's glaring ignorance is that knives are not known for their stopping power unless you physically make it impossible for an attacker to continue. Men have had their arms and legs sliced up, stabbed in the belly, stabbed in the chest and kept going. Physical pain can be endured, but these two idiots believe that in knife situations the first time you get cut you "instantly" fall to the ground and die. This assumption alone pins their ignorance to their chests.

Of course these are just more of pUke's shameless lies. He is a no class lying sackless bag of shit and he always will be.

That's why this seems so unbelievable to these two clowns: They have no idea about what really happens so they take their cues from movies and books.

More lies from the dickless clown.

RBSD has always taught men to work smarter, not harder. Working harder is and always has been the methodology of competition arts. Its how they train and what they train for. If they truly were as effective as Garland and jubaji would love to believe then how could they go on for 10-12 rounds?

Again, your ignorance is glaring.

A mugging is a gun to the small of your back or a knife to your throat or a knife in your gut.

Oh, like in all of the examples I posted? Idiot.

I don't speak in absolutes

Fucking liar. You frequently speak in absolutes and even more frequently lie.

jubaji would stand up and yell "Mayo Basho!" while writing about how he met the yokozuna in an effort to seem like he's done sumo too.

More lies and stupid, ignorant bullshit from the pUke.

[jubaji]

over a 20 year career period I had too many situations to count that involved multiple armed and hostile grown men who had to be detained in combat .

So you want to talk about experiences in actual military combat? Why don't you start another thread for that so I can shut up about it until you try to draw illogical connections.

[Uke]

Well when your every post is quoted and your screename changed to include the sexual fantasies of a pervert, the standard for civility accepted by the site is rather ambiguous. Add the fact that the major violator is repeatedly allowed to flaunt the fact that he is immune to the sites rules posted everywhere. Now factor in that if someone dares to insult the resident mongrel back they're warned about the forum rules for RESPONDING to his attacks.

The Rules of this forum are as followed.

1. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS
2. Inappropriate content will not be tolerated.

Anyone want to bet I can find over a thousand violations of the first rule alone by the resident troll? Lord only knows how many of his posts fit the second rule. Yet the ONLY time anything is said is when someone gives it back to him.

Its hard to take that fool seriously, TTE. You know that any grown person who spends years online doing what he does has to have a really sad and pathetic life. That's no speculation either. What kind of person has time to write almost 9,000 posts of that garbage? He's to be pitied and occasionally laughed at.

We both come here to write about MA and our experiences in it. He comes here to do nothing but put on exhibition his misery and dire need for someone to engage him. He doesn't care if its good or bad attention, as long as its attention. And for some strange reason, the mods here all agree to let him do it.

Do you care? Neither do I. It does get a bit annoying when the mods shield him from retaliation, but its clear that he needs it. He probably pm's whichever mod and cries up a storm and asks for shelter. I've sure as hell never seen them act on our behalf.

So let him bark and display just how unhappy he is. Hell, I'm sure that what he goes through in his life is worth than anything we could say or do to him. I'm oddly comforted by that.

[jubaji]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pUke
you still can't produce even one article about you or one of your brothers in tae-bo surviving let alone winning a mugging situation.

Did Garland ever claim that what he practiced was tae-bo? Or is that more of your lying bullshit, you dishonest pissy little no class punk?

Still no answer to this one...

[TTEscrima]

Its hard to take that fool seriously, TTE. You know that any grown person who spends years online doing what he does has to have a really sad and pathetic life. That's no speculation either. What kind of person has time to write almost 9,000 posts of that garbage? He's to be pitied and occasionally laughed at.

We both come here to write about MA and our experiences in it. He comes here to do nothing but put on exhibition his misery and dire need for someone to engage him. He doesn't care if its good or bad attention, as long as its attention. And for some strange reason, the mods here all agree to let him do it.

Do you care? Neither do I. It does get a bit annoying when the mods shield him from retaliation, but its clear that he needs it. He probably pm's whichever mod and cries up a storm and asks for shelter. I've sure as hell never seen them act on our behalf.

So let him bark and display just how unhappy he is. Hell, I'm sure that what he goes through in his life is worth than anything we could say or do to him. I'm oddly comforted by that.

Indeed, I think just about everyone from Arieson to Brewer have pointed out what a drooling retard he is, hell it was Brewer who said no one in their right mind believed a word he posted. His posts are the laughing stock of SD forums internet wide much like Gecko 45's were.

[Uke]

Street violence vs ring aggression misconceptions

A couple of things became clear in this debate:

• Some people don't know the difference between direct method and artsy, classical MA.

People who kick and punch also take stances and posture, which is the equivalent of yelling "En garde!". Without being able to directly engage your opponent in close quarters it'll just become a drawn out brawl that makes for more time for other elements to be introduced. That is not intelligent.

• Some people think that being cut is the same as being killed.

Once cut all their will is gone, and therefore so is the fight in them. Once that's gone, it's over.

• Some people believe that arguments that escalate into fights are the same as muggings.

This couldn't be more wrong. Sure there can be violence in both, but one is abrupt and you're forced to asses and react without warning. I'm sure that ring fighters would do well in situations where they knew the violence was coming. No one said that they couldn't fight, but violence in the street is all about the science of the sucker punch and weapons. And nothing about boxing, kickboxing or wrestling teaches you to deal with those things rapidly and without making it a match. You don't save you ass by giving the other guy a chance. And you don't take away the other guy's chances by dueling or competing.

• Some people think that dealing with blades is impossible.

Musashi fought a great many duels using a wooden boken. Most of these duels were to the death. What Musashi showed the world by doing this is that once you have a level of mastery in the nature of a thing you can successfully deal with it even when severely handicapped. His choice of weapon did not matter because Musashi's greater understanding led him to develop an approach that allowed him to be superior despite his perceived position of weakness. And even though today's RBSD is predicated on the same methodology, it’s thought to be impossible by some people due to their own limitations.

• Some people actually believe in the supposed safety of "positions".

There are people who actually believe and practice everyday in what they feel are safe positions to work/fight from. These include the muay thai clinch, the wrestling shoot and clinch, the BJJ mount and the guard, the boxing clinch. In what world do any of these positions offer any safety outside of schools and rings? Those positions were created to avoid getting struck by punches and kicks while trying to use your own offense. Any of those positions leave you wide open to weapons, and some of them leave you completely immobile so that you can't run or fight back when the second or third guy decided to put in his two cents. Where's the awareness and intelligence in that?

• The people who believe that kickboxing and wrestling work on the streets don't factor in size.

One of the biggest elements that people who think that ring sports work in street altercations don't factor in is size. If sports like kickboxing and wrestling were so effective, then why can't women seem to use them to beat men? There are women who have beaten men in violent altercations, but they weren't kickboxing or wrestling them. If you put one of the 160lbs boxers from Thailand into K-1 against 200lbs+ men like Ewerton Teixeira this point would be made in one round.

The point would be that if your effectiveness is predicated upon your opponent being at or around your own weight/height, then what you're doing doesn't ring of reality. It's basically saying that you'll only fight for your life when the mugger is your size. A 160lbs man kicking and punching a 150lbs man would feel a lot different than the 160lbs man punching and kicking a 220lbs man. Power in boxing/kickboxing translates with size disparities. Weight makes big difference when wrestling. And once your opponent is larger than you, aside from a sucker punch you'd be attacking strength, and that is not intelligent.

Awareness, avoidance, and intelligence are the gold standard.

I agree with the idea that those three qualities play an important role in self defense. Intelligence is a given. With that said, what would awareness and avoidance have done for the man in this news story? Is there a level of awareness that can stop you from getting sucker punched? It was my understanding that ANYONE can be gotten to. Hell, even Reagan got shot and he had several secret service agents always guarding him. And that wasn't a sniper job.

What would avoidance have done for the man in this story? Of course its always best to avoid confrontation when possible, but often times it isn't possible. And sometimes but not always, people get so wrapped up in avoidance that they put themselves in worse positions. The violence in this story and most other muggings is usually brought to the victim in hopes to intimidate or make it easy. I said it earlier and I'll say it again ... there's a difference between arguments that escalate and street muggings. In the city where people walk by and bump each other all the time and think nothing of it its hard if not impossible to be aware of everyone around you. Criminals know this and use it to their advantage every day.

My point here is that while awareness and avoidance are useful, they aren't flags sport competitors should wave everytime there's a discussion about self defense just so they can say seem intimate with self defense itself.

[jubaji]

• The people who believe that kickboxing and wrestling work on the streets don't factor in size..

More ignorance.