Any good intensive RBSD courses?

[Junka]

What kind of short term intensive RBSD courses are out there at the moment?
Any of them any good?
Something involving third party work too?

Imagine you were trying to train people who had decided to take part in a neighborhood watch program, these would be working people who once taught would probably practice occasionally with each other rather than being dedicated martial artists.

Ideas?

[kingoftheforest]

Something that stresses awareness and knowing what you can and can't handle.

To my knowledge NW's are there to be a first line of defense in the sense that you call the police when you see suspicious activity.

I don't know of any NW's that advocate actual contact with perps.

I understand if you see someone being beaten or raped you'd want to step in.

Here's a post I made awhile back about awareness

First and foremost I would like to define a few things so there is no confusion as to what is being discussed in this thread.

Self Defense is protecting yourself from an immediate threat to your life or well being. If any action is taken for a specific situation which you know is going to happen it is NOT SD. It would then be pre-meditation.

This first definition can be cleared up by the fact that awareness and avoidance are your two best techniques for SD.

Starting an altercation or frequenting places where you know an altercation may happen falls outside the realm of avoidance.


Awareness is not paranoia You don't have to look at everyone around you as a potential threat. Common sense tells you the 80 y/o women in the Wal-Mart is most likely not going to be an assailant. Except on Black Friday.
The 5 grubby looking teens loitering in the parking lot are another matter.

You should always be aware of who and what is around you and what they are doing. Assess the potential for threat and keep yourself positioned accordingly.

Now onto the martial aspect.

SD is to be used only in life or well being is endangered. Thus SD has to be taught almost like combat. If someone attacks you on the street or invades your home, you have to be mentally and physically prepared to deal with them. Subduing and opponent without injuring them is considered the highest form by most traditional arts. So unless you study and don't do alot else be prepared to injure (at the very least) your assailant. This isn't to say you have to have a KILL KILL KILL!!! mentality. But have the mindset that you're going all out right away, because you have no idea what the other guy is willing to do.

Deescalating a situation isn't always an option but should be your first go to.

As in the article UKE posted sometimes things just happen before you have a chance to be aware of them. You should practice these situations in class so you have at least a general feel and map of it in your mind, so you can react. Humans are creatures of habit, if you practice something enough it becomes instinctive.

Some of the skills necessary to defend yourself:

You can read the papers everyday and see stories of how people are attacked and how they do, or don't defend themselves. Hopefully these are never situations we find ourselves in but being prepared never hurts.

I feel that some type of punching and kicking art should be a good base for SD. Nothing fancy with spins and jumps. You're not trying to dazzle the "bad guys" unconscious. You want to expend as little energy with the most effect.

Multiple ranges are good to have too. Elbows and knees as well as hands and feet. You never know how close someone may be before things jump off. It's good to know your tools and have many to choose from.

While grappling and going to the ground aren't the most advantageous potions in a street/bar fight, you should cover these as well. Once again you never know where or when this may occur.

The grappling techniques you learn should be more of how to get the person off you and give you striking/running range. Judo has some nice throws that will usually give you some room to move or even knock out your assailant. Try to avoid suicide throws there's a reason they get that name.

Ground fighting techniques should also be designed to either incapacitate your opponent or help you get up and on your feet as quickly as possible. Many street attacks are done in groups and getting kick in the head repeatedly is no circus act.

Weapons training is also good to incorporate, if you're squeamish about knives then kubatons can work wonders without all the blood. Some people try to use control methods with kubatons. Remember in an SD situation the object is to end it ASAP so controlling or trying to make them submit is counter productive.

Sticks of any kind can be used as weapons as well as umbrellas. Don't count on these to be around or be your main study area, since it's kinda conspicuous to carry a stick around all the time.

Remember avoiding SD situations is the best chance you have this comes from being aware of what's going on around you. Your final go to should be violence.


Thanks for reading and as always constructive suggestions are always welcome.


KOTF

Add in some weapons training as in use and defense against. Find out what's legal in your area before hand.


Here's a little more.

The first step in any SD situation should be to attempt to deescalate the encounter. I have had this idea on my mind for quite awhile and have decided to start a thread on people's ideas of how to deescalate an SD situation or defuse it so it does not come to blows.

First and foremost let me point out that awareness in the most important tool in any situation SD or otherwise. You should always be aware of your surroundings and the people around you.

Second some SD situations are unavoidable and cannot be stopped with anything less than violence equal to the violence perpetrated by the assailant. Such as a mugging, a home invasion, or a rape.

Now as noted above awareness is a key ingredient in any SD situation, If you are aware of what is going on around you, you can be prepared for most altercations. If you are in a parking lot make sure to be aware of the cars around you. Don't daydream or stare at the ground while walking. The fact that there may be moving vehicles around you alone should be enough for you to pay attention.

The time of day does not dictate when altercations will occur. Muggings can happen any time of day. People have been kidnapped in broad daylight. So awareness is a full time job.

Most situations have precursors before the attack. Such as the examples we have heard of people harassing you in a club or other public place. You have to remember that you really have no idea what your assailants is willing or ready to do to you. Most situations start with verbal abuse and "smack talk".
Remember as a civilized adult talk is just that talk. People can say whatever they want to you. Most of the time talk serves two purposes for an assailant.

1. It helps them to ramp themselves up, or "pump" themselves up to attack you. Kind of like self motivation, getting geared up for the fight they hope to provoke.
2. It is meant to intimidate you and disarm you. They hope to get you angry so you will throw the first punch at them. This will cause problems for you since verbal abuse is not seen as a good reason to attack anyone, especially by Law Enforcement. Saying
'He was talking about my wife/girlfriend, or momma" is not going to put the Law on your side should you attack someone. And throwing the first punch without being threatened with a weapon or attacked by Lawful definition is assault.

The initial response to someone "talking smack" should be to ignore them and attempt to remove yourself from the situation. This does not always work in that some assailants are persistent and will follow you.

Let me clarify here that leaving to a place with less people in it i.e. going to your car in a parking lot. Is a bad idea. People are less likely to attack you when others are around. Just walk away but never let your assailant out of your sight. Turning your back is never a good idea in a potentially volatile situation.

This does not always work however. If attempting to remove yourself from the situation is not an option or the assailant follows you, then your next step should be to seek the proper help. In clubs and bars it is always a good idea to approach security and advise them of the situation. You have to do this professionally because security doesn't care who started it and it is always going to have two sides to any story. Saying things like "Hey man this mutha fucka came up and started talking shit to me now he won't leave me alone....."
Or "I'm gonna knock this asshole out if you guys don't do something first." Are not ways to endear yourself to security.

Things like "Excuse me Sir I was just over there minding my own business having a drink with some friends when this gentleman came up and began verbally harassing me. I have no problem sorting out what is going on with him however he seems extremely irate at the moment."

Also offering to leave the club while security keeps the assailant under a watchful eye so that you can make it to your vehicle safely is a good suggestion and normally accommodated by security in most clubs.

If on the street it is a good idea to find the nearest LEO or an establishment where you can reach one from. This in no way makes you less of a man or a "pussy" as the term is used. This makes you an intelligent human being.

Another way of handling a situation before it becomes violent is to try and verbally assuage the assailant. Using words to disarm an assailant is I feel one of the safest forms of defense you have just behind awareness. It's called being the bigger man. Let's say you are out somewhere and a guy feels that you have been "eying his girl" which seemed to be very common when I was bouncing.

Comments like "Get over yourself man. she doesn't look that great" or "F*ck off who'd want to look at that skank" are not methods to avoid physical confrontation.
Things like "I apologize if you thought I was doing that Sir, you obviously have a lovely lady there,but I was just staring into space."
or "I apologize if it seemed that way but I would never disrespect another man by doing that." Using a polite and friendly tone when saying these things can usaully provide someone with the information that you are NOT looking for a fight. If the situation continues to escalate which it may being that some people just like to start fights for the hell of it you may still have a chance to cancel out the argument with talk.

Saying things like "I'm sorry I'd rather this not turn physical" or "We both really don't want any trouble, we're all here just trying to have some fun." are examples of things to say in these situations.

Some situations are going to escalate no matter what you say or do into a physical confrontation. There are unfortunately people who go out just to pick fights. It's a matter of personal judgment as to when something is going to come to blows. Remember though throwing the first punch can paint you as an assailant in most SD situation. Law enforcement in most states do not warrant verbal abuse as means to attack someone. There is a very gray area in that respect however and once again I understand that if someone feels cornered or in trouble you must react to a situation. Being in front of a judge is better than being in front of THE judge.

However in these situations it has been pointed out by various members on this forum that body language and posture of your assailant can tell you what may be coming. Awareness of these things are keys to help you react to an attack. If someone throws up their "set" or takes a stance or guard I feel that ius enough to tell me how committed he is to wanting physicality and there fore I will react to this with a defensive movement. Defensive doesn't necessarily mean guarding from an attack sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Just like in chess if you open with the wrong piece it may not take an opponents piece off the board but you may have just set yourself up for a loss with that one move. Most of us here train and can understand that concept without elaborating. Besides that's why we have threads and not posts that no one can reply too.

Now these are all just general concepts and a vague shading of ideas and situations. It is good to think through and train for many types as well as discuss them. That way when the pop quiz comes in the real world you are already prepared to deal with it. It's hard to get the answer from someone else when a gorilla is breathing down your neck.

It is always better to try to avoid a confrontation rather than provoke it. People can say what they want about your character and "bravery" but many brave people have been killed in the street for not handling something in a logical and sensible way. If you make it home alive and in one piece everyday I count that as a victory more so than if you arrive home via the ER. Some situations cannot be avoided but we all know fighting is violent and harmful to everyone involved and avoiding the situations we can makes us all better martial artists and fighters.

Hope that helps.

[Junka]

Good advice. I agree about NW being mostly there to call the police and wouldn't advocate anyone getting themselves into trouble, physical or legal for that matter. However you guessed right about my meaning, I was talking about situations like rape/abduction where you simply feel you have to step in. Knowing that some people will step in under certain circumstances it seems better to have them trained.

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest View Post

The first step in any SD situation should be to attempt to deescalate the encounter. I have had this idea on my mind for quite awhile and have decided to start a thread on people's ideas of how to deescalate an SD situation or defuse it so it does not come to blows.

This is also my own view and what follows in your post is also very practical.

Here's a youtube of Blauer doing a 'devaluing yourself to your assailant' drill at an ATM.

YouTube - Tony Blauer analyses the ATM Scenario

[kingoftheforest]

Granted hitting the cancel button and walking away without the theatrics would probably be more socially acceptable, it seems like a good way to deescalate a situation before it even starts.

It's not a bad idea.

[Junka]

Well you can choose your own level of theatrics, it's just about conveying the idea you're not worth the time and trouble of mugging since you don't have money I think.

Any particular training courses that are good? As in RBSD instructors with a solid reputation. I could give examples of names I found when Googling but I fear I'll set off a political war lol.

[Tant01]

Rmcat

Well you can choose your own level of theatrics, it's just about conveying the idea you're not worth the time and trouble of mugging since you don't have money I think.

Any particular training courses that are good? As in RBSD instructors with a solid reputation. I could give examples of names I found when Googling but I fear I'll set off a political war lol.

Peyton Quinn is a pioneer in RBSD. Not sure if he's retired but his buddy Bill Kipp is still doing his thing...

[Junka]

It is always better to try to avoid a confrontation rather than provoke it. People can say what they want about your character and "bravery" but many brave people have been killed in the street for not handling something in a logical and sensible way. If you make it home alive and in one piece everyday I count that as a victory more so than if you arrive home via the ER.

Couldn't agree more. I think most of us (men) have suffered from that 'bravery' complex when younger especially. There have been people killed in road rage incidents who would have been better off simply not getting out of their car.

[Junka]

Peyton Quinn is a pioneer in RBSD. Not sure if he's retired but his buddy Bill Kipp is still doing his thing...

Cool! I'll google him when I get back from dinner. Thx.

[Tant01]

here and there...

Cool! I'll google him when I get back from dinner. Thx.

We have a number of members here on the forum who are recognized as leaders in the industry... Don't overlook what's right in front of you.



(I am not one of them)

[Tant01]

among the notable names here

What kind of short term intensive RBSD courses are out there at the moment?
Any of them any good?
Something involving third party work too?

Imagine you were trying to train people who had decided to take part in a neighborhood watch program, these would be working people who once taught would probably practice occasionally with each other rather than being dedicated martial artists.

Ideas?

I'm sure Mick Coup and others have published articles that you could use to outline a framework of force factors to fit your needs.

[Junka]

We have a number of members here on the forum who are recognized as leaders in the industry... Don't overlook what's right in front of you.
(I am not one of them)

Hopefully they'll answer on this thread, I haven't been around here long enough to know who's who and doing what really but I'll read Mick Coup's articles for sure.

[kingoftheforest]

Bob Spore is good too, you can look up a lot of his stuff on Youtube.

[TTEscrima]

Something that stresses awareness and knowing what you can and can't handle.

To my knowledge NW's are there to be a first line of defense in the sense that you call the police when you see suspicious activity.

I don't know of any NW's that advocate actual contact with perps.

I understand if you see someone being beaten or raped you'd want to step in.

Well said. I will add that serious consideration and training is necessary before forming groups with the intent of getting involved in street crimes as protectors of the innocent. You can very easily CREATE a hostage situation which would not have existed had you called for help instead of charging in without proper training and understanding of the dynamics of the situation.

I'd also add that "short term" classes nearly always assume long term active practice. SD skills and certainly PSD skills diminish greatly without proper honing.

That said look into Mick Coup, Bob Spour, Jim Grover, James Keating, Kelly Worden, The Wolfpack, David James, and Mercop.

[Tant01]

Thank you...

Well said. I will add that serious consideration and training is necessary before forming groups with the intent of getting involved in street crimes as protectors of the innocent. You can very easily CREATE a hostage situation which would not have existed had you called for help instead of charging in without proper training and understanding of the dynamics of the situation.

I'd also add that "short term" classes nearly always assume long term active practice. SD skills and certainly PSD skills diminish greatly without proper honing.

That said look into Mick Coup, Bob Spour, Jim Grover, James Keating, Kelly Worden, The Wolfpack, David James, and Mercop.

very good points.

And refrences...

I might ad that keeping an attorney on retainer is never a bad idea either.

[kingoftheforest]

I might ad that keeping an attorney on retainer is never a bad idea either.

And relatively cheap.

Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc.


I use these guys.