The Reality of the Blade

[ProKarateShop]

one of my instructors always said that when you are present with a knife, expect to get cut.. Just make sure you cut your attacker worse.

[Tokyo Kid]

Never stab somebody in the leg to teach them a lesson...

So then where the heck I'm supposed to stab 'em!?

[shuyun]

My first self defense application was against a knife.

I was taken by surprise and he had the knife blade (not point) across my throat. It was around 9 inches a kitchen knife. The other hand held the hand where i was making a phone call. Lesson for the day don't turn your back on the street when making a phone call.

Knife fighting and ground work were not among my skill sets during that encounter. I was ordered to hand over the phone. But with the blade gingerly over my throat I quickly realized that even if I gave in he could have sliced my throat anyway and even if I made all the right moves he could make a wrong move (spasm in his nervousness or what not and still cut me).

So at the moment what came to me was:

Fight and possibly die

Comply and possibly die

I decided to fight, the only thing I could do was grab the knife hand with both hands (while still holding the phone, I shoulda dropped it but didn't....so stupid). And Technique was clear in my head but my body could not execute, First hand experience of adrenaline dump.

Be went to the ground and stood up again, he had backup but they didn't join in (thank God). The thing that saved my life was to focus on the knife not the attacker. It was good I did because he shifted knife hands during the fight.

Eventually after we both got tired we threw each other off, I finally dropped the phone, he took it and ran and so did his buddies. I collapsed trying to catch my breath and found I had fight cuts on my hands. I think during some time in the tussle I held the blade bare. Only then did I feel the pain.

[adeano]

This is an interesting thread. Those links were interesting...

Only thing i want to add at this point is that you should not be trying to disarm the knife. Trying to disarm the knife is a 'low percentage' technique. The priority should be on controlling the knife bearing arm. Trap that arm. hard. Dont release it. Rather than using your hands, clamp it between your arm and your body. Sometimes it can be more grappling based (standing preferably) once that arm is trapped. Then go for the eyes and/or throat. The technique you use is up to whatever system you practise. Something filipino based is prob best practise.

[black knife]

I can't see a reason why this Atienza Kali student used a knife against an unarmed person. Deadly force has to be justified......and using a knife or gun against an unarmed opponent will most likely get you a prison sentence. I carrying a knife for one reason and that iis for multiple assailants. I can assume that if I had to fight several opponents I could risk getting killed.

I think only a woman could be justified in using a knife against a man that is why I recommend all wome should carry a knife and learn how to use it.

[Tant01]

I can't see a reason why this Atienza Kali student used a knife against an unarmed person. Deadly force has to be justified......and using a knife or gun against an unarmed opponent will most likely get you a prison sentence. I carrying a knife for one reason and that iis for multiple assailants. I can assume that if I had to fight several opponents I could risk getting killed.

I think only a woman could be justified in using a knife against a man that is why I recommend all wome should carry a knife and learn how to use it.

I think like you... And I have three daughters! Arm them well...

[kingoftheforest]

I think like you... And I have three daughters! Arm them well...

I second that.


Except for the 3 daughters, I only have 1.

[kingoftheforest]

This is an interesting thread. Those links were interesting...

Only thing i want to add at this point is that you should not be trying to disarm the knife. Trying to disarm the knife is a 'low percentage' technique. The priority should be on controlling the knife bearing arm. Trap that arm. hard. Dont release it. Rather than using your hands, clamp it between your arm and your body. Sometimes it can be more grappling based (standing preferably) once that arm is trapped. Then go for the eyes and/or throat. The technique you use is up to whatever system you practise. Something filipino based is prob best practise.

You ever try to grab the arm of a guy that's really trying to stab you?

You're gonna find that getting your hand cut sucks.

And if he really knows what he's doing when you grab he's going to slice all the tendons on the inside of your arm.

[adeano]

You ever try to grab the arm of a guy that's really trying to stab you?

You're gonna find that getting your hand cut sucks.

And if he really knows what he's doing when you grab he's going to slice all the tendons on the inside of your arm.

I don't mean grab the knife bearing limb with your hands. Not at all. I am not implying that you reach forward and grab the arm. Like you say, stupid move and you will get cut.

The problem with many knife defence 'blocks' is that they dont stop the attacker quickly recoiling and stabbing multiple times. That is the most dangerous knife attack and the least practised to defend against. That is why I say you need to control that knife bearing limb so that you negate that sewing machine effect of multiple rapid stabs. Any 'block' that doesnt control that arm is leaving the defender way open for a very rough time.

Now, it is very difficult to describe various techniques through a medium such as text. Below is a link which contains a video of just one example of how the knife bearing limb can be controlled beyond a simple, ineffective and crude 'grab'.

Juggernaut MMA: Knife Defence: The Cover -Drop -Drive principal

It also prevents the knife being stabbed into the defender multiple times.

[black knife]

I don't mean grab the knife bearing limb with your hands. Not at all. I am not implying that you reach forward and grab the arm. Like you say, stupid move and you will get cut.

The problem with many knife defence 'blocks' is that they dont stop the attacker quickly recoiling and stabbing multiple times. That is the most dangerous knife attack and the least practised to defend against. That is why I say you need to control that knife bearing limb so that you negate that sewing machine effect of multiple rapid stabs. Any 'block' that doesnt control that arm is leaving the defender way open for a very rough time.

Now, it is very difficult to describe various techniques through a medium such as text. Below is a link which contains a video of just one example of how the knife bearing limb can be controlled beyond a simple, ineffective and crude 'grab'.

Juggernaut MMA: Knife Defence: The Cover -Drop -Drive principal

It also prevents the knife being stabbed into the defender multiple times.

I agree with you.....you have to control the arm that has the knife.......not just the wrist. If you don't control the elbow he can easily get his arm away from you. You will do a 2 on 1 arm control. I like to use a Russian Grip whch consists of one hand on his wrist and your other arm hugging his arm with your hand cupping his bicep. There are other ways controlling the arm as well but the main thing is to reamin close to hi and that your elbows are close to yout body which wil give you stronger control. In knife defense it is about controlling the knife arm and then going for strikes to the throat, groin or eyes.

It is easier to defend against a knife attack if the person is doing a single commited thrurst or slash but if he is standing there waving the knife around and faking and feinting to create an opening then you are in for a fight for sure.

[kingoftheforest]

I agree with you.....you have to control the arm that has the knife.......not just the wrist. If you don't control the elbow he can easily get his arm away from you. You will do a 2 on 1 arm control. I like to use a Russian Grip whch consists of one hand on his wrist and your other arm hugging his arm with your hand cupping his bicep. There are other ways controlling the arm as well but the main thing is to reamin close to hi and that your elbows are close to yout body which wil give you stronger control. In knife defense it is about controlling the knife arm and then going for strikes to the throat, groin or eyes.

It is easier to defend against a knife attack if the person is doing a single commited thrurst or slash but if he is standing there waving the knife around and faking and feinting to create an opening then you are in for a fight for sure.

So what do you do about the other arm, if you tie all your weapons up on his one arm, he's not going to forget he has 2 all of a sudden.

[black knife]

Oh you must be talking about what I call the the "Switch".....where he grabs the knife with the other hand. Well from the 2 on 1 control there are several takedowns or disarms. I also have ways of blocking the "Switch". The techniques that I have come up with have been tested against a partner with a training knife. He tries to resist me while I perform the techniques. This is one things I learned from years of BJJ.....you must try all techniques against a live and resisting opponent to see if the technique will work.

[kingoftheforest]

Oh you must be talking about what I call the the "Switch".....where he grabs the knife with the other hand.

No I was talking about him busting you upside the head with his other hand. Screw that complicated low percentage BS.

[black knife]

My head will never be where they can strike my head. For instance if I am trapping is right arm I can either be to his right side where he can't strike me with his left hand. If I am directly in front of him I will keep my body close to his and my head will be near his right shoulder where once again he will not be able to strike me either. I have thought of all the ways he can strike me and its covered. Once you gain control of his knife arm and the blade is no longer a danger......close proximity allows me to avoid strikes. I can also deploy my knife safely once I have trapped his knife arm allowing me to thrust or slash him for the kill. Its the same concept if my attacker has an impact weapon.......in close I avoid the power of his strikes.......same thing about strikes....jam his kicks or punches. If a guy throws a kick...if I just stay there then his power will hurt me....but if I close the distance the power is nullified.

Fighting is a science........its hard at first but once you get the concepts it becomes easier.

[mellow]

I carrying a knife for one reason and that iis for multiple assailants.

I carry a knife for numerous reasons; probably the last of which is to use on another human being.