Please, Stop Training For Self Defense!

[Tom Yum]

I 've read this and have to offer a difference of opinion. Training for self defense doesn't mean someone is capitalizing on your fears, or that the eventuality that you'll need your training is slim. I live in a multicultural prejudiced world, my students go to school with 15 year old gang members who have little or no value for human life. The only family some of these kids have are fellow gang bangers. The dojo and boxing clubs of my city offer a real refuge to kids who need not only a sense of belonging and self worth, but also a lesson in reality based self defense and the confidence that comes with the knowledge of being able to walk away from a fight for the right reasons, or to beable to have half a chance for survival in the event walking away isn't a viable choice. My students aren't a-holes looking for a bar brawl, they are scared kids stuck in a school system that is so over taxed and understaffed, that they can't offer a proactive approach to the bullying and violence. They talk about zero tolerance for school violence, but that only kicks in when they are handing out post mortum sentencing not worth much to the kid that just got his ass beat and his jacket or sneakers stolen. The reality that some of these gang bangers live in is so brutally harsh that you or I may never understand it. I've never had to steal a meal or an article of clothing, I've never come home to a mom who's boy friend was a street level thug. These kids will kill you with a brick for five bucks. Self Defense training is a business, but it's far from lucrative........ the rewards of teaching self defense are intrinsic. So before you offer to sell on of my students your dusty purple belt, be glad I instilled in them a true value for human life, because if not, if they wanted it they'd take it from you.

Peace, Shaolin Warrior

Excellent post.

[Tokyo Kid]

Excellent post.

I agree. (except the part where the kids will kill you with a brick for five bucks)

[kingoftheforest]

Excellent post.

I agree.......................

[Garland]

Have you ever taught your students how to balance a check book? Teach them how to dress for a job interview?

I like that...holistic self defense...teach the kids communication skills, interviewing skills, defensive driving, nutrition, exercise, first aid and emt basic type stuff, and basic financial sense.

How about adding "happiness" training to the mix?

[shaolin-warrior]

so right

Have you ever taught your students how to balance a check book? Teach them how to dress for a job interview? Have you ever offered a gang member free lessons? A dojo or gym that becomes a part of the community is a good thing, but I know full well how important kids classes are to a schools financial success.

I'm not directing this at you personally, I don't know your reasons for what you do. And you obviously don't know me or the things I've been through. You don't sound like one of these suburban weekend warriors that spend countless hours studying arteries and knife wound statistcs. But your students are going to need more than karate lessons if they are going to make it.

I’m not a 501 (c) 3 non profit, but I might as well be. I'm retired Air Force, Disabled Vet. My wife, my two kids and myself have yet to make a dime from what we do, and that’s ok. I have numerous students who train for free, and all my students get a free membership to our gym. I train 7 days a week, with open dojo time every day for the kids to have some place to belong. They have to be in school to train; my daughter and I have done loads of homework with our students. No checkbook skills or job interview skills, more of a reinforcement of the" if you want something bad enough, work for it and it can be yours”. My best friend owns the gym, and my overhead is low. I've not had to go into my own pockets (much) as of yet.
Most of these kids are smart enough and have the street smarts to figure things out for themselves, they just have to stay out of trouble long enough to do it. Kids have tons of bad examples, they need some good ones. It was hard for me to get my mind around the fact that some children don't have their basic needs being met. I'll tell you what, my kids are older, 15 and 19, and they have a new appreciation for what they have. This has been the experience of a lifetime for me; it's made me a better Martial Artist. I even quit smoking, wanted to be a good example. Can't really preach a healthy lifestyle with a butt in your mouth.

[WildWest.]

Good on you Shaolin.

[Tokyo Kid]

I like that...holistic self defense...teach the kids communication skills, interviewing skills, defensive driving, nutrition, exercise, first aid and emt basic type stuff, and basic financial sense.

How about adding "happiness" training to the mix?

Happiness training? That sounds like something kids could use for sure.

I’m not a 501 (c) 3 non profit, but I might as well be. I'm retired Air Force, Disabled Vet. My wife, my two kids and myself have yet to make a dime from what we do, and that’s ok. I have numerous students who train for free, and all my students get a free membership to our gym. I train 7 days a week, with open dojo time every day for the kids to have some place to belong. They have to be in school to train; my daughter and I have done loads of homework with our students. No checkbook skills or job interview skills, more of a reinforcement of the" if you want something bad enough, work for it and it can be yours”. My best friend owns the gym, and my overhead is low. I've not had to go into my own pockets (much) as of yet.
Most of these kids are smart enough and have the street smarts to figure things out for themselves, they just have to stay out of trouble long enough to do it. Kids have tons of bad examples, they need some good ones. It was hard for me to get my mind around the fact that some children don't have their basic needs being met. I'll tell you what, my kids are older, 15 and 19, and they have a new appreciation for what they have. This has been the experience of a lifetime for me; it's made me a better Martial Artist. I even quit smoking, wanted to be a good example. Can't really preach a healthy lifestyle with a butt in your mouth.

well, I wish more instructors were like you. Too many people see how dangerous these kids can be and write them off.

[Garland]

Happiness training? That sounds like something kids could use for sure.

Good idea, huh?
I think people these days take things too seriously, especially themselves. Being able to take a step back, abdandon the typical ennui and apathy, or depression and learned helplessness or on the other side of the coin, the sense of entitlement and shrewdness and tunnel vision-esque focus that determine transcient unhealthy attitudes we find ourselves in in various times in our lives...and instead focus on how life is life and how we are very much in control of how pleasant or unpleasant it is based on how we frame things in our minds.

I'm sure you know the person who is overly polyannish and sees the good in everything, or the miserable bastard who finds either fault or dismay in anything...why not teach people to walk that middle ground by seeing the good in life, and becoming resilient enough to make their own good out of the bad?

I dunno...I haven't been drinking today, so I'm probably off my game.

[denko]

WOW ! Congratulations to you !

I know that ... I gave Kyoku has children from disadvantaged neighborhoods.
Individual education ! I did this 6 years free for them. By personal choice.
I come from the same background ...
This is great. Values are important. Work, respect, surpassing oneself, confidence. It helps a lot to find their personality. Their true nature.
Sometimes.
a student comes from a very good result. Win competitions. Pass the Patent Gazette. Became an educator himself ...
This was the TOP for me !
I congratulate you for your work !

But the pure self defense contains specific parameters. The notion of trust is not important. Vice is the engine of the street ...
Vice is the difference between a street fighter and a martial arts fighter. Living on the street develops that!
A man (or child) who suffers. A hungry. ETC! Not reason like a man or a normal child. This is different.
You can win a thug in the street. but it may come to you and your wife with 3 other rogue! The concept of honor is not in the street.
Revenge is a vital concept in the street. Do not take revenge is a tragedy.
This indicates that the rogue is small ..
It is laudable to give values to street children. This is logical. And I'm for it. But self defense is another univers.


if I must fight against a rogue. my attitude is very different. What if I am fighting against another practitioner of martial arts. I stayed 11 years to 18 years in the world of the Ministry of Justice. I stayed 15 years to 18 years in a juvenile prison. I know this milieu.
At 18 this is a priest (pastor) who help me! A friend of Shihan WAS Kyokushinkai Karate. He saved my life ... and after it was me who help others!
LONG! I know the power of values.
The positive result of martial arts! The chance to be helping! But this is not a guarantee of victory for the street.
Far from it. Unfortunately!
Become a responsible man, a father, a worker, a teacher is most important. Become a formidable street fighter = is taught in the street.
This is like war. To know how the war = must be war! This is the same! Learn street fighting = must fight in the street.
And life expectancy is very short ..

I think for children it is more useful to teach them a fighting sport powerfull. With federation, grade crossings, competitions, a qualification structure, an opportunity to become a teacher.
Just the "self defense" may be critical in the outcome. Competitions form the spirit ! Form the characters ! Provides group values.
The work of the Self Defense is different.
But this last point is just personal ...
it is not a criticism !!!!!!!!!!
not at ALL !!!!!!!!

the street thugs laugh that a guy made of Self Defense.
If he can not fight alone. he fights with 3 other thugs.
Unfortunately ...

PEACE, HEALTH & RESPECT has ALL

I know in France a teacher who helps children and women fought.
TOTAL RESPECT ! The form was personnal defense.
But the guy is a killer. Not in the true sense of the term, obviously But as form a little killers ! His teaching is unique. his system is based on the VICE and FAST + energetic work for the spirit. impressive !
I do have 300Km in cars in 2008 to meet with him !
I know another teacher like that. And all children not pay, and it is he who buys the equipment for THEM !
= big respect for him...

[Wi Kali Group]

are there any smilies where the guy is flipping the bird?

Forest, I will leave your precious forum forever more if you present a shred of a thoughtful post regarding fantasy based combatives. Anyone.

I'm trying to help you guys. It only hurts at first, you just need to relax.

The big thing with reality based martial arts. It is the best way to prepare for a life threatening situation. We have all heard about a black belt getting sucker punched.

Most boxers don't fare to well when jumped by surprise. Whether its boxing, karate, judo, wrestling or Jits. You take a person out of their sport and they are at a disadvantage.

Most sports tend to square off waiting for a ref or a bell to start. The big advantage with RBMA is the good ones plan out the hypothetical scenarios so if one happens you may still be surprised but since you train off surprise you may recover faster. The faster you recover and act the more likely you will survive.

Now as far as the mix that is up to the individual. Some people only want to train the RBMA that is fine. Some may train 3-5 hours a week of standard training and maybe to 3 hours a month or RBMA that is fine too. Alot of it depends on your environment and your temperament.

When you look at a lot of these RBMA many don't look very good at all. What they are doing in many cases will work. But it looks like crap. So in my mind having a little polish should be viewed as good. But if you have to choose between all function or all polish or all sport. I'd rather train all function. If I'm only doing it for fun and fitness I can think of more activities with hot women.

[Wi Kali Group]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Kid View Post
OK, kickboxing then. Or maybe spend a half-hour out of his life and teach him a groin-kick or eye-gouge. Do you really think a well trained boxer can't fight outside the ring, without a ref?

I don't need to spend five hours a week pretending to put out fires, do I?

Not if its a little fire. But if you were facing a serious fire you would have a better chance putting it out with more than 5 hours training. You would need to know the diff between a chemical, electrical & plain old fire. Fire extinguishers come in at least 3 kinds.

But the same token a good boxer could probably beat up some chump in the street. Maybe even a good street fighter one on one. But probably would get his ass handed to him against a knife, multiple attackers or getting jumped by surprise. But a good boxer who was well versed in RBMA would have a much better chance.

[kingoftheforest]

Not if its a little fire. But if you were facing a serious fire you would have a better chance putting it out with more than 5 hours training. You would need to know the diff between a chemical, electrical & plain old fire. Fire extinguishers come in at least 3 kinds.

But the same token a good boxer could probably beat up some chump in the street. Maybe even a good street fighter one on one. But probably would get his ass handed to him against a knife, multiple attackers or getting jumped by surprise. But a good boxer who was well versed in RBMA would have a much better chance.

I like the cut of your jib.

[denko]

Many speeches are the result of practicing NOT know that street fighting.
it is obvious here.
Belief and reality are 2 totally different things ...
When a guy know street fighting or jail = the post will be more consistent ...
I would not want to live real street fight, but obviously many people here work in a pure illusion.
Pretty speeches when we know the reality is not a help for others.
I spend more on the Forum.
Like many of the Forum, many practitioners have many words but little experience in the street.
I can not waste my time here with this kind of irrational theory.
a good continuation in all your personal uthopie.

[Wi Kali Group]

Many speeches are the result of practicing NOT know that street fighting.
it is obvious here.

Most people that have a clue no that without practicing you will never know. Speeches are much like intentions. They can be useful or a waste of time. People should feel free to try to help people on this site. People like you can always find something negative to attack. Most people who live in the real world only need one reason to gravitate to this forum and the training it describes. They want to be safer next week than they are today.

To me it seems your understanding of training and fighting is as good as your grasp of English.

Belief and reality are 2 totally different things ...
When a guy know street fighting or jail = the post will be more consistent ...

Yes but they are not mutually exclusive. It's only when your belief differs from reality that you need to worry. Like a belief that a forum on RBMA would be about holding hands, balancing a checkbook, any sport (boxing, MMA ect) and not on quality effective Reality Based Martial Arts.

You come here if you want to learn to defend your self. If you need info on laws in your area you should seek a lawyer in you area who deals in that.

I would not want to live real street fight, but obviously many people here work in a pure illusion.
Pretty speeches when we know the reality is not a help for others.

I've never met anyone in RBMA who wanted to live in a street fight (if that's even possible, are you on your med or could I recommend some. Not trying to bash but you don't make much sense). You seem to keep harping on pretty speeches. It's obvious you can't deal with the substance of the speeches (which are the only thing that matters). You keep bringing up people's fighting record. I don't think any sane person is concerned with that. You could be the toughest person on the planet (based on you comments I doubt that) but you clearly know nothing of value to me. So I would not seek your advice on this.

I spend more on the Forum.
Like many of the Forum, many practitioners have many words but little experience in the street.

I'd say this is a great example of the overall value of your opinion. It made no sense at all.

I can not waste my time here with this kind of irrational theory.
a good continuation in all your personal uthopie.

This is the only thing you said that made sense. Good luck and I hope you never end up in a serious event.