"I don't hit girls"

[profevil2002]

In our gym the girls work just has hard as the men and we treat them equal, my kenpo instructor is female, if you didnt go full out with her you where dead!

[seppuku]

w/e works for you. i wont hit back, i certainly wont hit back hard. i get kicked in whenever i spar with a girl, and when conditioning i barely tap them and they slaughter me. nonetheless, im not going to hit them back. if a girl attacks me on the street, i back donw or run. but i wont hit back.

[shaolin-warrior]

I tested for my black belt with three other women and four other men. A couple of the women were bigger and better than I was, and the kicker......one of the other women was my wife. Years of training together in the same dojo four times a week and privates on saturday we were never allowed to do any techniques on each other. Untill our black belt test, not only did we hit each other, we both were pretty brutal to each other. A good martial artist should be defined by their ability and not their gender. I've seen my wife rocked by punches that would roll here eyes back in her head, and she hung in there. She's not a barbie doll, but she's no amazon either. She's a girl, a girl with the drive to practice her art untill she's the best that she can be. wich is pretty damn good.

[Kotaro]

From personal experience in my gym, where there are both men and women, it is common knowledge that if a guy sparred with a girl in a serious manner, the girl could be seriously injured (this is kickboxing btw). I'm not saying that girls are wussy or anything like that, its just a fact of life. Theres a reason you've never seen Ernesto Hoost or any other fighter fighting a girl in a K-1 match, or any male pro boxer fighting a female pro boxer, and so on.

I assume that you probably all realize this, as it is fairly obvious, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, I'm just setting up my next point.

As far as light sparring is concerned, I can understand how other guys feel, because I have done this with women at my gym many times. Sometimes there is nobody else to spar with. In these cases I just try to hit with the amount of force I think they are used to from other girls at the gym. What I mean to say here is that you do not really want them to treat you as an equal in the sense of hitting you as hard as they would a male. Although they should certainly respect your skill level and use proper technique.

If I were to spar against someone who was much bigger than me (which I have done many, many times) I would want them to realize that the situation we were in was not really a desireable one but it was all we could really do because there was nobody else available to spar with. So no super-hard haymakers to the guy who weighs 60 lbs less than you. The same goes for guys/girls sparring. The guy should go somewhat lighter, he shouldnt just tap, but he should go lighter. Believe me, if they didn't you would not enjoy it.

[treelizard]

Theres a reason you've never seen Ernesto Hoost or any other fighter fighting a girl in a K-1 match, or any male pro boxer fighting a female pro boxer, and so on.

Hmmm, watch this one though...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5615976419910054798&q=%22Molly+Helsel+vs.+some+scrub%22+playable%3Atrue&pr=goog-sl

[Gard]

Women are granted special privalages in a social combat.
But in street fight there is a disadvantage.

[Garland]

I know a few girls where even the big guys need to bring their A-game if they don't want to be spitting blood.

Why are they tough? Because nobody gave them too much quarter in training. I can name about 3 girls that I used to train with who could probably whoop the shit out just about anyone who tried to pull anything with them.
Well versed muay thai, CSW, jiu jitsu, shooto, and fma practitioners, and VERY well conditioned combat athletes.

Mad props to them.
I mean, I think Lucia Rijker and people like Leila Ali could murder most of the male boxers in their weight class, with no special treatment.

Really...think about Jackass the Movie where the guy gets ROCKED by the kickboxer...was he trying to lose? No! Probably he was trying to pull an Andy Kauffman and got his ass beat to pulp.


It's not women that are disadvantaged in violent situations, it is most rational and sane people...but we're fighters...not very rational or sane...and we know how to hurt people, and do so for sport. We're irregular. Just because we jump to violence easily doesn't mean that that's the norm.

Female and male fighters are still elite. Granted if they are both subjectively as skilled and as well conditioned, they can fight and kick ass on the same level.

How many transvestite kickboxers and transsexual fighters does Thailand produce every ten years that make their circuits and HURT people really bad?

Fighters, regardless of sex, should train on the same level, at the same intensity, with no kid gloves...to treat female fighters special (as in not hitting them as hard when they drop their hands) would be to cheat them. Not only that...but if they're good...you need to hit hard or they'll put you under. (Hopefully)

If I were an instructor, I'd love to train women who could beat the bejesus out of male students. Excellent form, intensity, and fortitude...
look at Master Toddy's girls...murderous! Scary, scary girls...excellent fighters, great form, and play for keeps. Go for the KO but do it calculated and cool....nice!
I remember seeing some fights out in Vegas a few years back, and I was shocked! The women put on, in my opinion, a better and more technical and skilled fight then some very elite, top name muay thai guys.

[Kotaro]

I cannot stress this enough Garland: if what you are saying was true, we would not have seperate leagues for male and female fighters. But we do. Granted, there are some very strong or very weak women out there, just as there are some very strong or very weak men. But these are only exceptions to the rule. There are certain biological traits that make this a fact. Women's bone structure is generally lighter than males. As is their musculature. I understand there are some women who train very hard and can kick some men's asses. But these are the exception and not the rule. Generally, with your average male vs your average female, or your average pro male vs your average pro female, this does not happen. If most men spar most women with full intensity, the women could get hurt.

[gong fu]

women shouldent get equal rights then, if they are not equal to men.

but anyways if a women hits a man then they should get hit back, if you hit liek a man then you get hit liek a man.

"im not sexist i beat down men and women i dont discriminate"

[Kotaro]

Two questions: 1. Do you deny that men and women are physically different? 2. What does physical strength have to do with rights?

[Garland]

I cannot stress this enough Garland: if what you are saying was true, we would not have seperate leagues for male and female fighters. But we do. Granted, there are some very strong or very weak women out there, just as there are some very strong or very weak men. But these are only exceptions to the rule. There are certain biological traits that make this a fact. Women's bone structure is generally lighter than males. As is their musculature. I understand there are some women who train very hard and can kick some men's asses. But these are the exception and not the rule. Generally, with your average male vs your average female, or your average pro male vs your average pro female, this does not happen. If most men spar most women with full intensity, the women could get hurt.

I don't see too many people putting this to the test.
I think in some cases, the result would be the opposite.
this is not a "majority rules" situation, either...
we're talking about elite fighters.
Sex shouldn't matter within a weight class.

[treelizard]

As a woman, I just wanted to say that there is NO POINT in me practicing drills against an opponent that is not resisting. You NEED to train with people who will use full force at times. This isn't to say they should ALWAYS use full force or intentionally try to hurt their training partners during simple drills. But the last thing in the world I want to do is think I have a drill down that will not work when it's put to the test in the real world. You may as well just pay for a black belt! There are some drills and exercises I have learned (mostly wrist releases) that WILL NOT WORK against a big hunk of a man, and I'd like to know that before I try to test it out in the real world.

I do think that women can effectively learn to protect themselves and others with proper body mechanics and good training, but not if their training partners are going easy on them all the time because they don't want to hurt them. I always say it takes a real man to hit a woman. Ooh, I'm gonna get slapped for that one. These soapboxes sure are slippery!

Love and strength,
Yael

[hung gar kelmos]

Hello.

I’ve been taking TKD for the past two years, but have recently switched to a more advanced class. Instead of beating up small children, I am now surrounded by my peers. However, this has presented some problems.

The other students don’t always take me seriously.

They all seem to have morals about “not hitting girls” (which I can understand...outside the dojan). However, it’s extremely frustrating during sparring practice when they refuse to hit me or (almost worse) barely touch at all. Sparring becomes a game of “tap tag” in which I put forth full effort and am returned with lame half-attempts.

Despite how many times I’ve asked them not to go on easy on me, they still do. Anyway I can convince them to spar against me as an equal?

what you need to do first like one of your first replyers said
beat the hell out of them
then when your done and they rise too and not to grogy
threatin them to take me as a equil or beat the hell out of them
works great
i have no problem of hitting a girl
specialy my friends
we love to beat the hell out of each other

[Bigoldandslow]

Tkd

I think some of the posts are hitting the mark. I also agree that the overly commercialized TKD schools are a sad thing. My old school turned into one while I was there. The World Champion Korean Master used to teach every class. None of the first dozen of us that tested for 1st Dan made it on the first try. Jump forward a few years and the master rarely taught a class-or even observed the classes. Every person that tested for 1st Dan made it the first go-round. We went from 50 students to 500. I was not a yes-man type to the point I was going to be an indentured servant teaching superficial rote-learning at the belt factory for $8 an hour (nor was I ever asked to). At the same time I was not willing to go through the motions for $95 a month under a someone who was a white belt when I was getting ready to test for my 2nd Dan. I left there and stopped training under anyone for 2 years until I met my current grandmaster. After training under him for a while he convinced me to consider teaching. When I asked him what percentage he would want to use his name he looked at me kind of funny and said nothing, it would be yours. I was always a serious student and worked very hard at TKD as well as sampled other arts and styles. I am working very hard to provide intense hardcore training, especially to the teens and adults. I am trying to apply the lessons learned from over 20 years of study. I am finding that I am a much better teacher than I ever was a practitioner. I also agree that against the guys you are going to have to go all out. You did not mention what style of TKD you are studying. If it is WTF then you are protected with your hogu. Don't expect them to go harder on you until they have no choice. I remember when this happened to me. It was shortly after I got my black belt. I was in Moscow, Russia and wanted to train while I was there. It was summer time so they did not have regular classes, just people meeting at the gym and training. The master told me I would not be as good as the other people there but since he saw that I really wanted to train I could ask the students if I could train with them. One of them was a 16 year old girl who was 6'1" and the National Chamion in her weight division. She kicked my ass. I had to spar all out to keep up. It was a good humbling experience for me. You just have to get to the point with the men that they have no choice but to go all out as well.

While I understand the response about TKD being the problem, I must say I disagree. It is just tough to find a good school. At my school I am teaching Olympic style sparring as well as boxing style punches (with head shots) and
traditional style. I believe there is something to be gained from all arts though it is good to come from a base.

[Xtschneider]

Find a good TKD school and stick with it, its all the difference in the world.

As far as not hitting you hard enough, here it is from a male POV, and my personal experience.

When I had first started Hapkido, I couldn't throw women, my parents ingrained me with good morals over the years to the point I couldn't get a push pull motion hard enough that made me fear I might hurt her.... eventually I just got over it, and now I'll toss a lass down just as hard as a guy. As far as sparring goes, what everyone else said, go harder on them and they will go harder on you.