Bad position

[Garland]

What would be, if there is any, a good escape or defense from a prone position with the assailant in a full mount type position with the assailant's knees on the prone victim's biceps (which prevent the victim from moving his/her arms) and the assailant's ass resting in a position that makes it hard to move hips/legs in and effective manner. Note that the assailant has their hands free to choke or strike the prone person.


I knew a girl that was attacked in this manner, and the only thing I could think of to tell her after the fact as a defense from this would to not get into the position in the first place. (again, easier said than done.)

You can't gouge the eyes or throat...if they choke you, it makes it hard to bite, and you're not close enough to them to do any real damage that way...you can't pinch or scratch them/try and break their fingers...if the opponent is bigger, you can't bridge your hips to try and throw them off of you...and you're legs are effectively immobilized....
what could you do???!!!

[BoarSpear]

I'm not seeing how this is possible, If you are high enough on the opponent to pin the biceps with your knees then how are you going to control thier lower body? especially if they try to Choke thier center of gravity is to high. perhaps im not following you here? are the arms down by the sides ? is this a gaint on a midget?

[Garland]

I don't know exactly how to describe it other than what I said.

Victim, laying on back, with the assailant sitting down with their knees on the victim's biceps. The way in which the assailant is positioned on the lower part of the victims abdomen makes it hard for the victim to turn their hips over, especially if the assailant outweighs the victim.

{and the fact that the victim lacks the use of their arms to help alleviate this pressure by pushing one of the opponent's legs back so they can turn their hips. (like a BJJ or CSW mount escape)}

[Garland]

I guess it's a little like what you might do when you play "name ten fruits" with a younger sibling. toss them down, pin their arms with your knees and sit on the lower part of their, but low enough that they have trouble turning their hips over. Only instead of tapping their sternum with your knuckles, you're grabbing them by the throat.

[bunyip]

Escape through the backdoor - if they're that high on your body you should be able to curl up, stick your feet in their armpits and then extend your legs to scoot you out the back.

Of course, this probably won't work perfectly against a resisting opponent, but it should at least buy you enough space to get your arms free, following which you can work your normal upa/elbow escape sequence.

[SamuraiGuy]

Okay, this isnt going to happen, if someone has their knees over your biceps, their is no way they can immobolize your legs and lower body, the farthest they woudl get their ass down to is the sternum.

You really need to think this over and try it out.... you will see that your hips, legs and even stomach are left uncovered and you have alot of movement.

[eXcessiveForce]

been there done that. It's damn hard to get out of. It pins the upper body very efficiently. If there is a big difference in weight it is even harder as the arms are completely immobilized so escaping through the back is very difficult.

It is possible to try and buck them off, (especially if they are using their hands for any other than maintaining their mount.)

Generally it's a stalemate type position, It's not great for the attacker except that it gives control. It's not good for the person on bottom because they are immobilized and force to support the weight.


Leaves some damn big bruises on the biceps too.


Never let your biceps get too far way from you trunk. Keep them tight and that helps keep this from happening.

[eXcessiveForce]

How do you do that when your arms are pinned at the bicep? and the person is vertical, seated and ready to ground and pound?

I've had a 260 lb guy (also a much more skilled grappler) do it do me and I was stuck, couldn't move my arms.

Serious question. I haven't been able to grapple for awhile because of all my surgeries this year so I never got to work out of it.

[EmptyneSs]

havent been in this position yet, but u could grab the attackers pants while your biceps are pinned cant u ? if u can grip his his pants well, do u think u it would be possible to sweep them ? id probobly jsut try to grip his pants and lift him off me or create space.

or what if u get your arms around to the back of his legs, and just flip him?

[47MartialMan]

If the victim is limber enough, they could bring up their legs over the shoulders of the assailant....


Or- using the pelvic and buttocks, "buck" the assailant forward or enough to off blance and then free up a arm.......

This sounds like a typical school-yard bully tactic...easy to do with practice.

[bunyip]

Have you tried this against an actual grappler? I suspect in the best case you will fail, and in the worst case end up triangle choked into oblivion.

[Garland]

yes...it isn't the type of tactic used by a skilled grappler or a trained fighter, more the impulsive, reactionary type used by a predatory assailant.

[BoarSpear]

yes...it isn't the type of tactic used by a skilled grappler or a trained fighter, more the impulsive, reactionary type used by a predatory assailant.

exactamundo...if your training isnt protecting you from these types of attacks you might be training a sport...hence my early on question is this a giant on a midget?... if this gives you trouble and attacker isnt several feet taller and several hundred lbs heavier...find a new teacher...I had my beginner and advanced classes try this...Everyone escaped with ease...most all our people had big man on little woman, still no problem.


yes sometimes it hurts to do something...toughen up...realize hurt is now...injury will result if you let hurting stop you from fighting back...if you train with the idea that when you "tapp" you are surrendering in battle ...then from that point on your life belongs to the victor it might help toughen up enough to work through the pain. How much worse is he going to do to me now that i have given up? is it rape...death or torture or all of the above? Nah we dont train with tapping out in the back of our minds in my school. we have a Motto...die fighting...what you do to my dead body is up to you... But then my students arent kids on a macho trip, or professional atheletes... most of them are professional warriors.

[BoarSpear]

yeah the whole class looked at me like whAAAT? when i asked them to try it out...i learned an incredible concept from the Israeli outfit i was attached to...when i asked how they tolerated all the terrorism etc and how they had managed to win the 7 day war so decisively, the reply was....WHAT WAS THE ALTERNATIVE? indeed...i think why you train is as important as what you train.

[BoarSpear]

yep i stress to my people all the time that getting hurt is normal in a fight...ie scrapes, dings, and pain/soreness. Injury results from allowing pain to disrtact you from injuring your opponent. injuries require medical attention... getting dinged up is getting hurt. there is a huge difference in the two.