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  • pre-incident indicators


  • #2
    question on pre-incident indicators...

    This question came to mind when a friend of mine got some information about her s.o.'s (alleged) past history, and also from the MANY news stories you read about where serial killers' neighbors are interviewed saying "but he seemed like such a nice guy!" and "no one could have known!" In my friend's situation, I found myself thinking that this couldn't POSSIBLY have happened without our finely honed alarms going off, but then decided that was pretty arrogant of me to think that. Although we have good track records, I also know women who dated sociopaths who behaved themselves for YEARS before revealing their true nature.

    Anyways, it seems that in all of the "situations" I've been in one of the following happened:

    1. I got the weird vibes but deliberately chose to ignore it.

    2. I didn't get the weird vibes, but I was looking for the wrong things. As an example, and this is kind of a roundabout way to make this point, but at my work everybody who has ever been kicked out for disruptive behavior the whole time I've worked there was someone who I didn't like. My coworker, on the other hand, likes all these people. And I think this is because we are looking for different things. She likes people who are nice and polite and charming, and I like people who follow our rules and regulations without trying to get special exceptions, or in other words, I dislike people who cannot take no for an answer, no matter how seemingly insignificant the issue is. These are the ones that get kicked out.

    3. I didn't get weird vibes, but it's either because I wasn't paying attention, or because I didn't have time. One example would be getting in a vehicle as a hitchhiker before having so much as a conversation with the driver. Another example is getting along fabulously with someone until you have to work together, or have some kind of conflict.

    4. I didn't get weird vibes, but it was because I was living in an environment of ALL weird vibes and got desensitized to it. Or I got weird vibes from everything and just ignored it. Case in point: I remember a friend telling me that I was paranoid because I thought *everybody* was sketchy. Looking back at it I realize that almost ALL my friends back then WERE sketchy. How did I miss that? Anyway, I read somewhere that people who have been abused in the past are often desensitized to this somehow--either they are SO used to dysfunction that they subconsciously seek it out because it is comfortable, or they find themselves in situations they hadn't realized were dangerous, or they are on the (unhealthily) paranoid side and think everything is a threat, even the windmills.

    To sum this up, I would say that in MY experience, would-be perpetrators always leave tracks ahead of time for those that have eyes to see... Still, I am wondering if this is always the case and if this echoes other people's experiences? Or is it more like the sociopathic boyfriend/husband who is good for years and you just can't see it coming at all?

    Thanks in advance.

    Yael

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    • #3
      Originally posted by treelizard
      question on pre-incident indicators...
      How did I miss that? Anyway, I read somewhere that people who have been abused in the past are often desensitized to this somehow--either they are SO used to dysfunction that they subconsciously seek it out because it is comfortable, or they find themselves in situations they hadn't realized were dangerous, or they are on the (unhealthily) paranoid side and think everything is a threat, even the windmills.
      What is considered dysfunctional? Are you referring to constant arguing, disagreements and bickering or things much more serious?

      Some people's relationships consist of emotional erruptions frequently, but that's how they get along I guess.

      Originally posted by treelizard
      To sum this up, I would say that in MY experience, would-be perpetrators always leave tracks ahead of time for those that have eyes to see... Still, I am wondering if this is always the case and if this echoes other people's experiences? Or is it more like the sociopathic boyfriend/husband who is good for years and you just can't see it coming at all? Thanks in advance.

      Yael
      I think some of us guys let our guards down when we are around our women and tell them what we are thinking, feeling etc. I don't think its possible for a sociopath to exhist without a women getting some clue, then again there was the BTK guy. Its a hard one.

      Some of us fellows here have been through psycho-ex's and the behaviors gradually make their presence known.

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      • #4
        I suppose there is a wide range of dysfunction which would start from constant arguing, etc. and end up more serious. I had a friend who dated a sociopath and I asked her this same question--she said he behaved himself for the first five years they were married. Pretty scary. If I ever get married, I'm gonna run a background check on the guy first. Just in case.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by treelizard
          Pretty scary. If I ever get married, I'm gonna run a background check on the guy first. Just in case.
          Marriage is a serious commitment, so you should definitely get to know your mate as best as possible and see them through their highs and lows of life.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by treelizard
            I had a friend who dated a sociopath and I asked her this same question--she said he behaved himself for the first five years they were married. Pretty scary.
            Did she date him after they were married or were they married before they dated .

            A little unusual, don't you think?

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            • #7
              She dated a sociopath for about a year. Then they got married. He behaved himself for five years (six, if you count the year they were dating.) Sorry for the confusion, I've been getting not quite enough sleep lately.

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              • #8
                I guess its better being single and unmarried until the right person comes along.

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                • #9
                  Well no argument there, I just thought it was very disturbing that he was normal for five years and then became extremely violent, seemingly out of nowhere...

                  Originally posted by Tom Yum
                  I guess its better being single and unmarried until the right person comes along.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by treelizard
                    Well no argument there, I just thought it was very disturbing that he was normal for five years and then became extremely violent, seemingly out of nowhere...
                    Strange indeed. Check out the thread "Why we love sane women". same treatment, opposite sex.

                    Most dating relationships die out within 2-3 years or so I've personally experienced usually because one person wants to move on if marriage isn't on their mind. Never been married, so I don't have a frame of reference.

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                    • #11
                      And I just remember in Point Last Seen, where Hannah Nyala (one of my heroes, by the way) wrote about her abusive husband. He was totally normal until they got married, and then he got really violent. So what's the deal? Are they just missing indicators? Are they not in tune enough with their intuition? My best friend and I screen each other's dates--pretty harshly, I may add, looking for red flags, etc. But what if there aren't any?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by treelizard
                        And I just remember in Point Last Seen, where Hannah Nyala (one of my heroes, by the way) wrote about her abusive husband. He was totally normal until they got married, and then he got really violent. So what's the deal? Are they just missing indicators? Are they not in tune enough with their intuition? My best friend and I screen each other's dates--pretty harshly, I may add, looking for red flags, etc. But what if there aren't any?
                        Marriage can change people, I guess. Seems strange that a guy would suddenly become abusive just after getting married.

                        If there aren't any red flags, then the guy is probably worth a try I guess. You can get to know a guy pretty well by dating him, so give it a shot and see if he's the guy for you. If he gets randomly violent on you, you should recognize that he may have a problem and think about if the realtionship is going to be healthy.

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                        • #13
                          Word, that is good common sense. I was just wondering what people's experience has been with pre-incident indicators. In my experience, they have always been there...

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                          • #14
                            I lived with a woman for four years before I married her - which marriage lasted ten months. It wasn't a physically abusive situation, but looking back I have spent a lot of time thinking about how either of us let that crummy relationship go on - much less turn into a marriage.

                            We fought about all kinds of stupid stuff. We didn't like each others friends, we didn't like the same things, we didn't share the same values. What we had in common initially (college parties and hippie culture) we both grew out of, and it should have ended there - but instead, we were simply used to each other by then.

                            It's funny how normal a bad situation can become. Consider; you wake up every morning to it, you come home every night to it. Your friends have been seeing it for years, they take it for granted. No one at work really knows about it, they assume everything is okay. So what can occur in long term relationships is that it becomes difficult to see what's happening because you haven't got any perspective. You don't ever step out of the situation long enough to really see it.


                            I think it's probably like that with many abusive relationships. The abuse starts slowly and builds up just at the same rate as it normalizes for both people. In a situation like that there might not be any pre-indicators, because the relationship itself generated the abuse. The abuser didn't hide anything so much as he developed that role over time - the same way the victim developed her role and the way the friends slowly came to see the couple as 'just that way'.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by treelizard
                              Word, that is good common sense. I was just wondering what people's experience has been with pre-incident indicators. In my experience, they have always been there...
                              I'm certainly unqualified as a relationship counselor, but here goes...

                              Does the person blow-up over little things or are they pretty calm and collected?

                              It depends on how little the thing is and the context.

                              For example, if you're making dinner for him and you forget to bring him a fork and he gives you verbal hell for it and calls you stupid #@#&, that might be a good pre-incident indicator.

                              If he suddenly from out of no where uses emotional manipulation to get you to sway in his way, you should be aware of it. For example, you decide that you want to do a ladies night out and he threatens you about it, you might have some personality conflicts.

                              He has a terrible day at work and when you try to help him, he starts taking it out on you or snaps at you, that's a good indicator.

                              You're driving in traffic and the stress from dealing with occasional bad drivers puts him in road rage and it spills on you, that could be an indicator.

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