Self-defense Seminars

[Jace]

I have recently attended two women's self defense seminars. I got a lot more out of one of them than the other, which brought up a lot of questions.

For those of you who attend or teach self-defense seminars (specifically women's, but it could also apply for general self-defense) what appears to work the best for you and what doesnt?

Is it better or worse to have men present when doing women's self defense? Does it make a difference if it is being taught by a man or a woman?

[Tom Yum]

My experience teaching self-defense is limited, so I may not be the best source. I've taught a few free classes of muaythai at a ladies shelter and I've taught girlfriends muaythai and self-defense (escapes, reversals, holds from BJJ and other arts).

I think its important to have men present, but in a lower male/female ratio since the focus is on women's self-defense.

You need men around to assist the instructor and to give the ladies an idea of what its like to work against men, since that is probably the highest concern. Women tend to go too easy on each other (except when y'all critique each other's fashion in public )

[GranFire]

Women tend to go too easy on each other (except when y'all critique each other's fashion in public )

Hehehe....

Most women have that fear of hurting somebody.

It is kind of a catch 22...you can't have all women in the group, but, depending on where you are an male/female training scenario is suspect...

Expect a lot of giggling though...because we do things ordinarily frowned upon...

And depending on a womans background (shelters were mentioned) there might a few psychological issues breaking free...not of a great concern, but interesting to watch!

Keep it simple and repeat often, some of the techniques need to be turned into muscle memory to work. But stretching awareness, the mental part of not being a victim. A friend of mine, having gone through abuse herself calls it being 'human road kill' a state that attracts the predators...

[Red Rum]

Can I just say to the women on here - be wary of anything that labels itself as 'self defense'. I have been to a lot of seminars that focuses on things like (kick to the groin, stamp on the foot)

If you aren't wearing heels, than that kind of stuff is rubbish. During fights, confrontations etc, guys get high on adrenaline. Pain doesn't stop most guys.
I was in a fight once and a guy tried to knee me in the balls. It didn't hurt until the next day

My advice is to train a martial arts that caters for what you are after, rather than going to specific seminars. There are some good pieces of advice that seminars give, but so do most martial art schools

Why I'm annoyed at seminars like these is because many of my female friends come back from these asking me to grab their shoulders or wrists etc.
They then find that they can't apply the moves they have learnt!!
Yet they would still rely on using the same move in a street scenario.

I feel that these seminars give women false confidence. Confidence is good, but in a real situation, many women will try to do a move and up getting hurt

Get to a martial arts school that trains punches, elbows, grappling, strikes to the throat and realistic fighting (not sparring).

[GranFire]

well, the best deal about the MA as selfdefense IMHO is the fact that you get into shape, and as such carry yourself different which makes you less likely to be looked at as prey. Add to that the conficence in close quarters...mentaly, not getting cocky or anything...


However, since statistics seem to suggest that about 9 out of 10 women are assaulted by someone they know (and love) the street scenario is a type of *Duck and Cover* Awareness more than tricks is the key to avoid random attacks...

[Red Rum]

well, the best deal about the MA as selfdefense IMHO is the fact that you get into shape, and as such carry yourself different which makes you less likely to be looked at as prey. Add to that the conficence in close quarters...mentaly, not getting cocky or anything...

You get into shape after a couple of seminars? You'd do better going to a gym. Certainly, you would hopefully get better at awareness etc, but what I was saying is that most defense seminars teach women one or two moves that will supposedly deal with any attacker. Sometimes awareness isn't even mentioned in these kidn of seminars.

However, since statistics seem to suggest that about 9 out of 10 women are assaulted by someone they know (and love) the street scenario is a type of *Duck and Cover* Awareness more than tricks is the key to avoid random attacks...

Hmmm, not too sure about the stats there. The women in my office have never been attacked by someone they know, but they have been mugged, robbed etc by strangers. Do you mean by Duck and Cover that a street scenario is a myth? I can assure you its not.

I agree with you again about awareness, but sometimes it is unavoidable. If a woman finishes work late and has to walk to a car park alone etc.

Martial arts won't necessarily save your life if someone comes at you with a knife, but you will certainly stand a better chance. A proper martial art will at least give you confidence

[GranFire]

You get into shape after a couple of seminars? You'd do better going to a gym. Certainly, you would hopefully get better at awareness etc, but what I was saying is that most defense seminars teach women one or two moves that will supposedly deal with any attacker. Sometimes awareness isn't even mentioned in these kidn of seminars.


Hmmm, not too sure about the stats there. The women in my office have never been attacked by someone they know, but they have been mugged, robbed etc by strangers. Do you mean by Duck and Cover that a street scenario is a myth? I can assure you its not.

I agree with you again about awareness, but sometimes it is unavoidable. If a woman finishes work late and has to walk to a car park alone etc.

Martial arts won't necessarily save your life if someone comes at you with a knife, but you will certainly stand a better chance. A proper martial art will at least give you confidence

EEP, no...


(Some days I confuse myself)

No, doing MA, not SD seminars gets you in shape...the greater picture...

And as per statistic..(never believe one you didn't put together yourself )

Your experience is different... but the scenario your discribe flls under the awareness I mentioned, how to avoid it. It's a little complicated to explain (maybe once I had coffee it works, later...) You don't put yourself in the position, in the place of being assaulted by a random stranger...and that is aslo true for men.

The seminars are nice and dandy, but the neat tricks need to be practiced constantly to become second nature, because you won't get a second chance...


(the statistics might be way off, a lot of attacks go unreported...I don't know anyone falling victim to a stranger, my mom on the other side was attacked by a man she considered a very good friend...)


Duck and cover refers to the program from the 50s and 60s to pacify the population in the face of the nuclear weapons. In case of a strike, duck and cover...utterly useless in itself but it calms the mind...

We teach our little kids "Stop Stranger, don't touch me" while here, too most kids have to fear the dirty uncle, father, grandfather a whole lot more than the boogey man from the bad part of town...



(getting coffee, maybe later I make sense to myself...)

[Tom Yum]

However, since statistics seem to suggest that about 9 out of 10 women are assaulted by someone they know (and love) the street scenario is a type of *Duck and Cover* Awareness more than tricks is the key to avoid random attacks...

Can this be interpreted as innocent women associating themselves with the wrong guys? or do women exhibit behaviors that lead to confrontations? or both?

Before I get slammed by liberal feminists for the later, allow me to explain.

I tend to assume the best in women (I know, terrible fault). some women might be with the wrong dude and through no fault of their own, are a victim. That's a tragedy that I think courses like women's SD should focus on. They should learn to have the courage to defend themselves with physical tactics and remove themselves from a dangerous situation or relationship.

Other women seem to attract this kind of thing.

I'm not going to focus on any particular group of women, but I'm seeing more and more gals whom feel like they aren't loved if their man isn't beating them or whom violently lash out at men whom aren't exactly pushovers and get beaten in the process.

The only thing that will help this second group of women is some kind of long-term counselling program or psychological reprogramming. Leave it to Garland, our soon-to-be Psychological expert to handle this one....

That's mah $0.02. Want change?

[Jace]

Can this be interpreted as innocent women associating themselves with the wrong guys? or do women exhibit behaviors that lead to confrontations? or both?

All the statistics don't really mean that much. The fact that it is normally by men that they are previously associated does.

When I started this thread it was because I had two very different experiences at self-defense seminars. For the first, I was at my home dojo with a group of women (most of whom I already knew). Our instructor had invited a few men to come and act as our aggressors and attack us. I knew all the guys present.

Part of the way through a discussion we were having on all the R's and D's and A's of self defense, one of the guys comes up and starts yelling at me (he was told to). I've been training in martial arts for over 4 years, I knew that there was a good chance something like this would happen. Instead of responding, I sat there and took it. I sat there and took it because it was a guy I knew. I didn't respond because I didn't want to hurt him - he is a friend.

So when you ask if it is women's behaviors that lead to the high number of assults, yes in a sense. We are more likely to ask questions first and then react. By the time we have finished asking ourselves "why is he yelling at me?" - the guy has already had time to make his move.

I can only guess at how I would respond if a guy I *didn't* know tried something similar. Especially after that praticular seminar, I probably wouldn't hesitate to lay a guy out and ask questions later. Unfortunately, I still dont know if I would be able to lay one of my guy friends out. I know that physically I could, but mentally, I'm not sure I'm tough enough for that.

I guess what I am trying to say is that most women are beat by the MENTAL part of the attack before a physical attack even occurs.

As far as women putting themselves into that situation though - it isn't there fault. Guys run into jerk guys in the bar sometimes and they make a fuss over it. You'd be an amazing individual to say you've never been introduced to a jerk before. Some women aren't smart about it after they've met the jerk, but for the most part the initial meeting is unavoidable and therefore it increases the risk of an encounter later that could turn into an assult.\

PS the statistic that I heard was that 1 out of every 4 women will be assulted at least once between the ages of 12 and 60. Unfortunately I do not know what that praticular statistic was defining as "assulted". I could look up where I got the information from, but I don't have it with me or I'd put that on here too.

[GranFire]

It is pretty much the message, one in four women will get sexually assaulted...not sure about the perimeters though, college, age or whatever...


I found your account of the SD seminar very interesting, indeed...being yelled at by a friend making you freeze up....scary thought, should that friend have the intention to hurt us...

[Red Rum]

I'm sorry, but if you really believe that most women are attacked by people they know then you are hanging out with the wrong people.

Sure my friends have fallouts with me and we might even have a fight about stuff, but I wouldn't go as far as say that they have ever attacked me.

I work for the police over here working in the MIU (Management Information Unit and we do these kidn of stats)

When you think about all the robberies that happen - they are much more frequent than domestic incidents.

I have rarely heard of a case where robberies occur between friends

As for common assaults, sure they might be friends arguing but generally these are horrible horrible people.

All I am saying is that it is far better to train for the random stranger event than against someone you know.

[GranFire]

Maybe brittish guys a nicer?


But you don't get those cases that are too ashamed to report it. because if your buddy flattened you, you sure must have done something wrong and deserved it, so no need to cause him any trouble!

[Jace]

All I am saying is that it is far better to train for the random stranger event than against someone you know.

RedRum, I think you are looking at this ifrom the wrong perspective.
I do agree with you about robbing being more common than rape or abuse, but it doesn't changet the fact that if a woman is going to be assulted (be it beaten, molested, raped, whatever) then it is more likely to happen by someone she knows and trusts.

As far as statistics - I already said I don't put much stock in them, but these are things I accept as truth through experience. At 20 years old and I can count the women I personally know who have been assulted in one way or another and know that it is a very high percentage.

I don't think it is fair to say I hang out with the wrong sort of people either. Most of them are just normal girls who have been in bad situations. Here is the scary part: out of all the women I know who have been assulted - only 1of them reported it.

and you know what - I didn't report it when I was assulted either. I kept the guy (who I did know preivously) from hurting me and left it at that.

[Tom Yum]

I just wanna good girl; good heart, good lookin' (ya know, girl-next-door good looks) and a good head on her shoulders.


That is all

[Jace]

I just wanna good girl; good heart, good lookin' (ya know, girl-next-door good looks) and a good head on her shoulders.


That is all

The problem with that is about the time girls hit dating ages (15-16) they start loosing parts - they either start misbehaving, turn jaded in the heart, or loose their heads (most of the time opting for obsessions, trends, or friends instead).

With all the things that can go wrong with women today, you have really high standards, but good luck to you anyway : )