Womens self defense, or MMA grappling?

[TigerClaw]

Hello all,

I want you to consider a smaller woman comes into your club, how would you teach her quickly to survive a assault or rape situation? I do not think that they are going to want to roll around on the floor with a grappler. Kung Fu has quick effective ways to escape. I have been saying this all along. They need to attack the vital areas in close quarter attacks. This is the best escape for women, and to use the element of surprise as well.

Here is a few videos I saw on the net. I know the woman may or may not be using Kung Fu , but she has the right direction for a smaller woman. Watch how many times she attacks the groin, or eyes, or throat, or twist the neck etc. I am not saying she is some great martial artist. But the point I am making is that women should be able to escape fast from an attacker, and I would not want to see them train for years in grappling only to be overcome by a larger grappler. By the way many of these same techniques can work for women on the ground in a grappling situation, or for men as well.

YouTube - Fierce and Female

YouTube - Vital Point Attacks in Women's Self Defense : Women's Self Defense: Eye Attack

YouTube - Vital Point Attacks in Women's Self Defense : Women's Self Defense: Groin Strikes

Notice in this second clip that the Wing Chun teacher uses language that I have been using for a long time, he says strike the eyes and groin. I think anyone who is familiar with survival combat fighting and not just sport fighting will immediately see the reality of such defenses.

YouTube - Self-Defense for Women : Women's Self-Defense: Defending Against Mounts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMbdHZQ7ZVA&feature=related

And this is the mess that happens to a woman when she tries to go the non combative route. But I have to say one good thing for the teacher he did say to attack the vital points when the opportunity presents itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3c4MNdzl-4&feature=related

[TTEscrima]

Jesus H. Christ on a crutch, you actually make me miss MattBla's posts. I'd neg rep you again but it says I've gotta spread it around first. I think it's time you join your buddies on ignore, enjoy trolling each other, because you deserve each other, TTMF.

[TigerClaw]

Jesus H. Christ on a crutch, you actually make me miss MattBla's posts. I'd neg rep you again but it says I've gotta spread it around first. I think it's time you join your buddies on ignore, TTMF.

Your response says nothing please be exact in your attacks, show exactly what you are talking about and why you disagree and tell me how you would teach a woman to defend herself fast and effectively.

[TigerClaw]

............

[sunwukung]

You say you don't want to prove anything, yet you start thread after thread reiterating your principle point, yet always insisting on dissecting other people's performances in Youtube videos, and consistently refusing to demonstrate your point in a (relatively realistic) video of your own.

Your key problem is that you are operating under the idea that grappling is a style to pit kung fu against, but as I've tried to make you understand, grappling is one quarter of a complete fighters repertoire. Talking about striking vs. grappling again and again is meaningless - a good fighter should have all these weapons at his disposal and be able to seque from a block/strike to a grapple and back again.

As for the videos, isn't it evident that in the WC videos, the "attacker" is being compliant, but in the grappling videos (while being nice) he is not letting her get away so easily? Any good practitioner of WC knows that extending your arms to full range presents as much of an opportunity for the attacker to trap or break the attacking limb, so those get outs were pretty piss-weak.

Incidentally, you said you won't demonstrate the techniques you would use against a grappler, because they cause too much damage or you won't get into fights (not even sparring apparently) - and that these techniques are only available to people who persevere for a long time in training. Yet here you are advocating these same, long-term techniques for use in a self defense situation.

It would be much better to teach a women a set of simple techniques for EACH situation, be that standing up, or as is most likely - pinned down on the floor with her arms held down. In which case, at least a modicum of grappling training in addition to any strike training would seem very important.

It appears you are determined to teach people techniques that favour your personal fantasies about TMA rather than anything that they can use in the short term.

[TigerClaw]

You say you don't want to prove anything, yet you start thread after thread reiterating your principle point, yet always insisting on dissecting other people's performances in Youtube videos, and consistently refusing to demonstrate your point in a (relatively realistic) video of your own.

I don't care to prove any more to some in here. But I do want to start health discussion about these issues. I brought up this topic because I think it is dangerous to women in particular to not learn how to fight this way. If they listen to some other advice in here they will possibly put their life at risk. I want to help people, and so i want to terach then things that work.

By the way I did post pictures in another site of many techniques and escapes from various grappling positions. I am hoping to do a book about this soon and perhaps I can posy more.

Your key problem is that you are operating under the idea that grappling is a style to pit kung fu against, but as I've tried to make you understand, grappling is one quarter of a complete fighters repertoire. Talking about striking vs. grappling again and again is meaningless - a good fighter should have all these weapons at his disposal and be able to seque from a block/strike to a grapple and back again.

No, I have no problem with grappling I study this also, and I admire some jujitsu fighters techniques and ninjitsu as well. But I make the comparison to TV MMA fighting which is sport and not combative and Kung Fu survival combat fighting which is realistic.

As for the videos, isn't it evident that in the WC videos, the "attacker" is being compliant, but in the grappling videos (while being nice) he is not letting her get away so easily? Any good practitioner of WC knows that extending your arms to full range presents as much of an opportunity for the attacker to trap or break the attacking limb, so those get outs were pretty piss-weak.

I think there were a few moves before the eye attack. But anyway, I just wanted to post this to show that I am not alone in resorting to eye attacks and groin strikes. Like the experts I posted from the Black belt magazine, we all agree that against a close quarter grappling situation going for the vital points is key, especially for a woman.

Incidentally, you said you won't demonstrate the techniques you would use against a grappler, because they cause too much damage or you won't get into fights (not even sparring apparently) - and that these techniques are only available to people who persevere for a long time in training. Yet here you are advocating these same, long-term techniques for use in a self defense situation.

No, I can demonstrate them with control and slower, there are so many of them that it would take a while to show them all. But for example, who is going to actually claw the eyes or hook into the eye lid and lip and torque back hard just for demonstration. I am not going to do this ,ever for such purposes, what craziness would that be?

The problem with some in here and on the DL, is that they have gotten themselves into a trap by attacking me too fast and falsely, then they had to continue their insanity and false arguments against vital strikes and the techniqeus that I show. So when someone disagrees that attacking the soft tissue and other vital areas is not going to work in combat, they make a grave error and put others in danger by not teaching it for survival.

It would be much better to teach a women a set of simple techniques for EACH situation, be that standing up, or as is most likely - pinned down on the floor with her arms held down. In which case, at least a modicum of grappling training in addition to any strike training would seem very important.

I can teach both

It appears you are determined to teach people techniques that favour your personal fantasies about TMA rather than anything that they can use in the short term.

Wrong, I teach them traditional Kung Fu and many applications from the forms, and many other survival Combat applications for all situations.

And as far as the weaker grappling video I posted as well where the woman struggles around in a mess for a long while. If that teacher had immediately taught her to attack the vital areas the situation would have been different.

Tell me how you would teach a smaller woman to overcome a larger grappling situation against a rapist. I could teach this in one lesson or two. I would give her the basic principles and vital targets and how to apply them in actual situation. But how would you do it? Assuming you only had one or two classes to teach it.

[jubaji]

Here is a few videos I saw on the net.

Thus demonstrating the extent of the 'skills' you have gained through your 'training.' What a fucking tool.

[Hardball]

This thread should be in the womans forumn. I hope the moderators agree with me.

[TigerClaw]

Thus demonstrating the extent of the 'skills' you have gained through your 'training.' What a fucking tool.

No, just some videos to make a point about women's self defense and the practicality of vital strike attacks. I have taught combat survival techniques for a while.

Your continual renouncing of such clear basic combat techniques just shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about and that you put others at risk by your words against me.

[TigerClaw]

This thread should be in the womans forumn. I hope the moderators agree with me.

I put it in her because it relates to MMA and what I have been talking about in the area of vital strikes.

[TigerClaw]

What does your screen name, "tigerclaw" refer to exactly? Is it related to the kids kung fu company that is teaming with Disney right now? Seems to be the best name to use to generate controversy, and it is guaranteed to get us all to take the bait.

Am I going to be banned for posting this question, for getting too close to the truth?

I particularly like tiger style and as far as attacks on the ground clawing techniques work good.

But really I like the tiger style. Thats all it means.

Does Mr Anderson relate to the guy in the matrix?

[TigerClaw]

No, it has everything to do with Remo Williams. But then again, I am not claiming to be a Kung Fu teacher without posting any proof.

Who is that? I have no idea what you are talking about . I teach Hung Gar Choy Li Fut, Seven Star Mantis, Northern Shaolin etc etc etc and I have shown some proof of technique on the DL.

But show me proof that you know any martial arts, post video and pictures and explain your techniques and tell me how far have you gone in martial arts?

[jubaji]

Your continual renouncing of such clear basic combat techniques just shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about and that you put others at risk by your words against me.

Is everyone here putting others at risk by their words against you? Maybe you haven't noticed, but everyone here sees what a clown and a fraud (and a mental case) you are. Everyone is wrong and you are right?

[TTEscrima]

This thread should be in the womans forumn. I hope the moderators agree with me.

I don't know where it should be, but I know where it shouldn't be,and that's here.

[Tant01]

Yawn.... I think I've seen enough of TC rhetoric...