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  • The Truth and Lies About Women's Self Defense

    ESSAY PUBLISHED BY EMORY UNIVERSITY
    By- Lorne Coleman
    ESCAPE Women's Self Defense and Empowerment Programs
    770-433-9371

    THE TRUTH AND LIES ABOUT WOMEN'S SELF DEFENSE

    Like most of the media messages targeted at women, the messages women receive about self-defense contain myths designed to perpetuate our rape culture, a culture which accepts male violence against women as the norm. Since men usually write these messages, there is a problem with the very language of women's self-defense. Even the phrase "women's self-defense," implies that it is, in essence, somehow different from men's self-defense. Do you ever see ads for men's self-defense classes or media pieces on men's self-defense? The reason you do not is that our patriarchal society automatically acknowledges that men have a "self" worth defending, and, rest assured, they will defend it (see Schwarzenegger, Snipes, Stallone, Van Damme, Willis, ad nauseum.) Rape culture dictates that men are entitled to their space in the world, and pity the fool (or the culture) that "threatens" their space or thwarts their efforts to take women's space.

    Men manipulate the language of self-defense to their advantage, and to women's disadvantage. In Real Knockouts: The Physical Feminism of Women's Self-Defense, Martha McCaughey discusses how self-defense law (language written by men) usually works against women who successfully defend themselves against male violence. When a man victimizes a woman, she is often blamed for using bad judgment or accused of actually desiring the victimization. When a woman successfully defends herself against a male attacker, she is often accused of employing inappropriate and/or premeditated aggression.

    When the media presents news coverage about a man being robbed at an ATM at night, do you ever hear anyone questioning what the man was doing at an ATM at night by himself, or suggesting that men should carry a pepper spray, a chemical agent, a stun gun, or any of the other personal safety devices which are heavily marketed to women? Clearly, you do not need the assistance of a self-defense expert to identify the message which underlies the following "commandments" of women's self-defense: women should always vary their daily routine, in case they are being watched; "women should never run alone in the park"; "women should arrange to do all their shopping and errands during daylight hours"; "women should never go out alone after dark"; "women should/women should not..." ad infinitum.

    OUR RAPE CULTURE'S MESSAGE TO WOMEN IS: ALL SPACE, AT ALL TIMES, BELONGS TO MEN!

    With their proclamation that "women should never go out alone after dark," men hope to make you believe that you can keep male violence at bay with a dead bolt. "I'll just stay home tonight," you might rationalize, but what you would actually be agreeing to is a restriction of your personal freedom. In return for this loss of freedom, men offer you the false hope that locking yourself inside after dark will prevent them from beating you, raping you, or killing you. The United States Department of Justice documents that eight out of ten women recognize the face of their attacker, a man they trust enough to allow into their home or someone who already shares their home. According to the latest FBI statistics, one out of every four women will be targeted for sexual assault, and a woman is beaten every nine seconds. Oops, there's that language manipulation trick again! Let's state the truth more clearly:

    THE TRUTH:

    AMERICAN MEN RAPE ONE OUT OF EVERY FOUR AMERICAN WOMEN.

    A MAN BEATS A WOMAN EVERY NINE SECONDS IN THIS COUNTRY.

    The truth is that the men in your life are more likely to verbally/emotionally abuse you, harass you, stalk you, beat you, rape you, and murder you than the men locked outside your door (Bureau of Justice Statistics report, "Female Victims of Violent Crime," 1996). For further insight into the way men manipulate language to avoid accountability for their violence against women, please see Talking Back, by bell hooks, and Fugitive Information, by Kay Hagen.

    RAPE CULTURE MYTH:

    WOMEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MEN'S VIOLENCE AGAINST THEM.

    It is no accident that you are led to believe that you are somehow responsible for men's violence against you. The language is intended to perpetuate the myth: "Why did you accept a ride from him?"; "Why did you allow yourself to get drunk at that frat party?"; "Why did you wear that short skirt?"; "Why did you agree to let him walk you back to your apartment?"; "The bitch had it coming!"; "You know she really wanted it!" This language is meant to promote protectionism, the "women should/women should not" school of sexist thought. Protectionism is most men's idea of women's self-defense. Protectionism is one of our rape culture's most effective means of imposing misplaced shame, blame, and guilt onto women so that men will suffer very few negative consequences for their choice to use violence against women. The FBI documents that rape is the most underreported of all violent crimes. Many women reporting assault fear they will be disbelieved or blamed for the violence that men have inflicted upon them. The question should not be, "Why did you allow him to drive you home?"

    THE REAL QUESTION IS:

    WHY WOULD HE CHOOSE TO RAPE YOU?

    The answer, sadly, is because he knows that he will most likely get away with it. About half of rape defendants are released prior to trial, and only about two-thirds of convicted rapists ever receive a prison sentence (Bureau of Justice Statistics report, "Sex Offenses and Offenders," 1997).

    Do you dream that a man is attacking you and you try to scream, but no sound will come out, and you try to fight back, but your body will not move? This dream is universally reported among women who grow up in this society. It is a result of the constant negative, sexist conditioning that our society imposes upon you from infancy. Unlike G.I. Joe, Barbie is never allowed to fight with Ken; it would not be feminine! Every night on television, men objectify and brutalize countless women. If you walk through the horror film section of any video store, you will find that almost every cover depicts an act of male violence against women. Pornographic "snuff films" take men's violent fantasies to their ultimate conclusion: men literally rape, torture, and murder women on screen. Protectionist "self-defense experts" tell you that you should never go out alone after dark and suggest that you urinate and defecate on yourself should you be attacked (actions which can actually fuel the rapist's intention to terrorize and humiliate his victim). If you decide to buy a weapon for self-defense, these same "experts" advise you to select one which will not kill YOU when your male attacker turns the weapon against you!


    ANOTHER RAPE CULTURE MYTH:

    WOMEN ARE INCAPABLE OF DEFENDING THEMSELVES.

    Television networks do their part to perpetuate this myth. "Watch it boys, she's a black belt!" scoffs the villain on a popular television series. The

    woman he is attacking defends herself with numerous punches and kicks, but to no avail. He is too big, too tough, too strong! This message that men are invincible and that women are inherently vulnerable is designed to control and oppress women, to keep you available for male victimization. With their smoke screen myths of men's invincibility and women's incapability, what is it that our rape culture's propagandists are trying to conceal?

    THE TRUTH:

    POLICE REPORTS DOCUMENT THAT WOMEN OF ALL AGES

    SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST MALE ATTACKERS.

    Women do have success stories to tell, despite the fact that the media rarely shares them with us. You can read women's self-defense success stories in the following books: Real Knockouts; Back Off! How to Confront and Stop Sexual Harassment and Harassers; Her Wits About Her; The Gift of Fear; and Fight Back: Feminist Resistance to Male Violence. As you read women's stories, you will learn the truth about women's self-defense from the women who have done it successfully. You may decide to train with feminist self-defense instructors who will empower you with women's truths, authentic women's self-defense. Real Knockouts, Her Wits About Her, and Essence Magazine (January, 1996) provide information about empowering women's self-defense programs around the country. One of the most encouraging facts you will learn from women's success stories is that women who listen to, and act upon, their awareness and intuition, and who set strong verbal boundaries, have a very high success rate in defending themselves without fighting (see Back Off!) It is inspiring to report, however, that women who do choose to fight have an equally high success rate in defending themselves (see Stopping Rape: Successful Survival Strategies).

    In the city of Los Angeles, the Model Mugging Women's Self-Defense & Empowerment Program has documented over one-thousand knockouts of men by women in self-defense scenarios. Graduates of empowering women's self-defense programs report a new awareness of options, both verbal and physical, and a new confidence in their ability to assert and defend themselves. It is important to keep in mind that self-defense training should never be about second guessing ourselves, or anyone else. There are no guarantees in self-defense. If you are the survivor of rape, or of abuse or violence of any other kind, please know that you did everything right. You are not responsible for another's choice to use violence against you.

    THE TRUTH:

    MEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

    It is hopeful that groups like Men Stopping Violence, a program based in Atlanta, are finally holding men accountable. In their twenty-four week program, the male instructors of Men Stopping Violence confront men about their choice to use violence against women, and challenge them to make a different choice. But until men choose to stop using violence against women (see Transforming A Rape Culture), women need to have realistic options for defending themselves.

    In Real Knockouts, Martha McCaughey describes empowering women's self-defense training as "physical feminism," because the training enables you to combat the myths which perpetuate rape culture. "I went through the self-defense metamorphosis," she explains. "I learned to jab, punch, poke, pull, kick, yell, stomp, shoot, and even kill with my bare hands. But the fighting spirit is much more than that: self-defense transforms the way it feels to inhabit a female body...Self-defense instruction shows women how to thwart assault aggressively, and in so doing throws open for critique the gender ideologies to which we have all become more or less habituated."


    ANOTHER RAPE CULTURE MYTH:

    WOMEN ARE INCAPABLE OF DEFENDING THEMSELVES.



    Television networks do their part to perpetuate this myth. "Watch it boys, she's a black belt!" scoffs the villain on a popular television series. The woman he is attacking defends herself with numerous punches and kicks, but to no avail. He is too big, too tough, too strong! This message that men are invincible and that women are inherently vulnerable is designed to control and oppress women, to keep you available for male victimization. With their smoke screen myths of men's invincibility and women's incapability, what is it that our rape culture's propagandists are trying to conceal?

    THE TRUTH:

    POLICE REPORTS DOCUMENT THAT WOMEN OF ALL AGES

    SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST MALE ATTACKERS.

    Women do have success stories to tell, despite the fact that the media rarely shares them with us. You can read women's self-defense success stories in the following books: Real Knockouts; Back Off! How to Confront and Stop Sexual Harassment and Harassers; Her Wits About Her; The Gift of Fear; and Fight Back: Feminist Resistance to Male Violence. As you read women's stories, you will learn the truth about women's self-defense from the women who have done it successfully. You may decide to train with feminist self-defense instructors who will empower you with women's truths, authentic women's self-defense. Real Knockouts, Her Wits About Her, and Essence Magazine (January, 1996) provide information about empowering women's self-defense programs around the country. One of the most encouraging facts you will learn from women's success stories is that women who listen to, and act upon, their awareness and intuition, and who set strong verbal boundaries, have a very high success rate in defending themselves without fighting (see Back Off!) It is inspiring to report, however, that women who do choose to fight have an equally high success rate in defending themselves (see Stopping Rape: Successful Survival Strategies).

    In the city of Los Angeles, the Model Mugging Women's Self-Defense & Empowerment Program has documented over one-thousand knockouts of men by women in self-defense scenarios. Graduates of empowering women's self-defense programs report a new awareness of options, both verbal and physical, and a new confidence in their ability to assert and defend themselves. It is important to keep in mind that self-defense training should never be about second guessing ourselves, or anyone else. There are no guarantees in self-defense. If you are the survivor of rape, or of abuse or violence of any other kind, please know that you did everything right. You are not responsible for another's choice to use violence against you.

    THE TRUTH:

    MEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

    It is hopeful that groups like Men Stopping Violence, a program based in Atlanta, are finally holding men accountable. In their twenty-four week program, the male instructors of Men Stopping Violence confront men about their choice to use violence against women, and challenge them to make a different choice. But until men choose to stop using violence against women (see Transforming A Rape Culture), women need to have realistic options for defending themselves.

    In Real Knockouts, Martha McCaughey describes empowering women's self-defense training as "physical feminism," because the training enables you to combat the myths which perpetuate rape culture. "I went through the self-defense metamorphosis," she explains. "I learned to jab, punch, poke, pull, kick, yell, stomp, shoot, and even kill with my bare hands. But the fighting spirit is much more than that: self-defense transforms the way it feels to inhabit a female body...Self-defense instruction shows women how to thwart assault aggressively, and in so doing throws open for critique the gender ideologies to which we have all become more or less habituated." (page three)

    NEW MESSAGE:

    WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR SPACE!

    WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR FREEDOM & AUTONOMY!

    WE WILL DEFEND THESE RIGHTS...

    BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

  • #2
    Why do you need to be empowered?

    You bring up some good points and your passion is obvious. However you are completely wrong on a number of points.

    You state that, "Do you ever see ads for men's self-defense classes or media pieces on men's self-defense? The reason you do not is that our patriarchal society automatically acknowledges that men have a self worth defending, and, rest assured, they will defend it."

    There is a HUGE market in marketing and advertising for men's self-defense. Black Belt magazine lives on these ads. If you've ever seen the full page, two and three page ads by TRS or Jerry Peterson, then you know that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent on them each month.

    There are over 215,000 martial arts schools across the country and the vast majority of students there are male. And, from personal experience as a commercial school owner, the vast majority of male students join to learn self-defense. Pick up any Yellow Pages book and think of what the combined national market for ads with "self-defense" must be.

    Look elsewhere on this board and you'll see huge threads on self-defense subjects discussed mainly by males.

    Men's magazines have articles regularly about self-defense and then there is the ABSOLUTELY GIGANTIC magazine market targeted (bad pun here) toward the (mostly male) American gun owner that is totally focused on self-defense.

    Just because you are insulated in your personal experience, don't state that something doesn't exist because you haven't seen it.

    Your assertion that the truth is "AMERICAN MEN RAPE ONE OUT OF EVERY FOUR AMERICAN WOMEN" is ludicrous. Twenty five percent of the female population is not raped. It is statistically likely that a female has a 25 percent chance of being sexually assaulted in her lifetime because of the RATE of sexual assaults per 100,000 women. But the TRUTH is that some women are sexually assaulted more than once. Some are assaulted multiple times during their lifetime.

    Be that as it may, I think that even a 1 percent chance of being sexually assaulted is too high. That's why all of us on the board are working to help people defend themselves from the scum that would prey on the weak.

    I have to tell you that as someone working in law enforcement, I find it very difficult to swallow your assertion "When a woman successfully defends herself against a male attacker, she is often accused of employing inappropriate and/or premeditated aggression."

    If your use of "often" is your qualifier, I'm stumped. I'll tell you that in over 12 years of experience, I have had one -- one -- case of a woman that we took to jail instead of the guy for domestic violence. In the state in which I work, there are laws that require MANDATORY incarceration for domestic violence and that means the man is going to jail. Believe me, there is no coddling of males here, there is no discretion and there is no tolerance.

    You state that "Even the phrase 'women's self-defense,' implies that it is, in essence, somehow different from men's self-defense."

    The fact is, it IS different. A man will most certainly have to fight another man, but a woman will not fight another woman, she will also have to fight a man. So now you have to deal with developing strategies and techniques for a generally smaller person defending themselves from a generally larger and stronger attacker. You have to deal with the fact that men attack another man differently than they attack women. To paraphrase Tony Blauer, a man just has to defend his property or his life. A woman has to defend her property, her life AND her body.

    And speaking of language manipulation tricks, how can you in good conscience state in the title of your program that you "empower" women. You're defeating your own argument. All humans have the power to resist inherently and instinctively within them. You can't give it to them or empower them to defend themselves. They already have it. People seek self-defense training to learn how to employ different strategies and techniques that make their instinctive fight or flight system work more efficiently.

    The truth is that we live in crime culture. Big fish eat smaller fish. Evil people prey on good people. The "norm" is that violence is perpetrated against both genders, all sexual preferences, all age groups, all races, all occupations.

    Train today like your life depends on it. Someday it might.

    Brad Parker

    Comment


    • #3
      Reply

      Hi Brad!

      Thank you for your response.

      I think that you should re-read the article though, because most of your arguments are already talked about and adressed in the article.

      To start with, I did not write the article. At the top of the page it states that Lorne Coleman (a male - professor- martial artist for 34 years '5 black belts' trained by FBI, GBI, works at rape crisis and battered women's shelters, and taught military etc.) wrote the article that was published by Emory University. You can email him at escapeselfdefense@hotmail.com or call 770-433-9371 if you have questions for him.

      Also, all the stats are documented in the article - and the article was published by a university. If you feel that the numbers/ stats - like 1 in 4 women will be assaulted by a man in her lifetime- are not true then just call the FBI and Justice Dept. National Stats Hotlines (I have the number at home if you would like me to post it later) . I understand that it is so horrible that it almost seems that the numbers can not be true. In fact, the numbers only represent the women the government knows about! These numbers do not even include women who have been victimized more than once!

      Next I will address some of what the article says so you will re-read it more carefully.

      The argument about "Men's Self Defense" is about the wordage, not whether there are not men's self defense classes out in the world. The argument is that the classes are not called "Men's Self Defense Classes". They are called martial arts, self defense, etc. The word 'Men's' is never used because it is assumed. I (and all our insturctors - men and women) have looked at many articles in all different types of books and magazines- and have never seen "Men's Self Defense" word for word. I think the point the author is making is that society assumes men already have a self that is worth defending.

      "Do you ever see ads for men's self-defense classes or media pieces on men's self-defense? The reason you do not is that our patriarchal society automatically acknowledges that men have a "self" worth defending, and, rest assured, they will defend it (see Schwarzenegger, Snipes, Stallone, Van Damme, Willis, ad nauseum.) "

      In your statement

      "The fact is, it IS different. A man will most certainly have to fight another man, but a woman will not fight another woman, she will also have to fight a man. So now you have to deal with developing strategies and techniques for a generally smaller person defending themselves from a generally larger and stronger attacker. You have to deal with the fact that men attack another man differently than they attack women. To paraphrase Tony Blauer, a man just has to defend his property or his life. A woman has to defend her property, her life AND her body. "



      I think that you are assuming the bad guy will be bigger. That is not always the case. Even if he is bigger the most effective techniques work the same for a man and a woman (physical power is just one attribute of a fighter - do not forget leverage- and the ability to take hits -and experience- what options are open-mind power - the ability to hit vital striking areas-and even will to survive- etc.
      I do think there are different dynamics with every person in a fight, but stating that women need to know different strategies because you assume she is smaller and weaker is what I disagree with. Do you teach men who are big to only learn how to fight against smaller people and base your whole class on this concept?- prob. not. you teach him the most effective techniques that you know that would work with all different types of people. I believe you should do that with women also.

      I have to go, but will reply more later!!!!
      smiles!
      ERICA

      Comment


      • #4
        defense...

        Hi Erica,

        Great post. I help teach martial arts, and those statistics are very important for most people to be aware of.

        I would like to answer one aspect of it however. The assertion that we're a patriarchal society where we must psychologically demean women with "Women's Self Defense" I think is VERY misleading and offbase.

        Most women I know don't want to take self-defense because they're worried about some testosterone over-run gym with big guys hitting and punching. They don't want excellent body mechanics for a power punch, and in many cases don't want to know fatal points to strike either. They're interested in simply doing the least possible damage to escape a situation. (For the record, I disagree with this). Now before we go into a tangent about how society does this (true), let's continue to go after this point...

        By saying "WOMEN'S Self Defense", it immediately let's women know they its a setting where they don't have to feel threatened. Many might be taking this for future knowledge, but some have already been victimized, and might need a secure setting as they start coming out of the shell they've built (men do this too... this is a generalization about people). Therefore a self-defense setting that has other women is less theatening. After all, how many men would feel comfortable, if they were the only MAN in a self-defense class?

        Furthermore, a woman might have different self-defense obstacles than a man (due to society, absolutely). Many fighting positions require mobility and the fist to bring an opponent down. Long nails, high heels, and some clothing might be too restrictive for a woman who might have to wear these as she goes to work. YES, there are better clothes for mobility that are options, but many women don't necessarily go for that (just as many men don't...vanity hits everyone).

        Now having said this, I think a "Woman's Self Defense" class might be a good starting point for a woman who wants to enter learning slowly. But by NO means do I feel its sufficient.

        Women I have talked to are less willing to carry a blade or weapon than a man. Many are not willing to seriously injure an attacker until the attacker escalates things (my belief is that once an attack is on, you don't let the opponent lead, you shut things down immediately). These are problems that must be addressed.
        But seeing a problem with saying "Women" in addressing martial arts might be targetting something needlessly.

        Now again, my assertions as you see address the perspective of women I've talked to and known. My viewpoint is that they're not aggressive enough. Then again, testosterone might account for my views since the male androgen is responsible for aggression in a normal psychological make-up.

        Thanks, I look forward to your response!
        Rooke

        Comment


        • #5
          Greetings all.

          I took the Impact/Model Mugging 20 hour "Men's Course" - a self defense course designed for only men. While it is not as popular as Impact's women's course, it is offered and marketed as a men's course, and deals with situations men are likely to encounter.

          I think the article contained quite a few generalizations and made a number of assumptions. No two self defense situations are the same, we can only train for what our "best guess" might be for a successful defense. There are way too many variables.

          More later.

          HAGRID

          Comment


          • #6
            well i would say that it is better to have knowledge about self defense, even if it is hard to train for real situations, because you never now how they will come or develop. but if you know some basics, that makes you more capable to handle tha situation better. ( just my oppinoion)

            Comment


            • #7
              Agreed, Kluten.

              HAGRID

              Comment


              • #8
                Reply

                Hi! Model Mugging/ Impact are awesome programs. In fact, our ESCAPE Program Director, the article writer, trained and instructed with both programs! The ESCAPE Program is also based on the triangle of awareness, intution, and boundary setting.

                HAGRIG- I agree "No two self defense situations are the same, we can only train for what our "best guess" might be for a successful defense. There are way too many variables". The article does not say that two situations are the same. In ESCAPE we teach that in every situation a person looks for openings to use a tool. We also emphasize that it is a person's choice if they choose to fight or not. I believe this is much like Moddel Mugging/ IMPACT. I have not had the opportunity to take either or these classes, but have heard only great things about the classes.

                I would like to know what assumptions you believe the article talks about.

                KLUTEN- I agree that the more options a person has and the more stress training a person has - the more likely they are able to get away from an attacker. Although- I have read many stories of women who had no self defense training and fought their way out of an attack. In the books - THE GIFT OF FEAR by GALVIN DEBECKER and in Her Witts About Her by Cagnion and Roach (spelling?) their is a fight where this woman (one of the authors) fight for 30 minutes and gets away with no SD training! pretty amazing!

                Rooke- Thanks for your comments, but I disagree with some of them. I think that still today the majority of woman self defense teachers are guys that are jerks like you were talking about...over and over I go to presentations titled "Women's Self Defense" and it is a jerk guy trying to sell pepper spray or stun guns - telling woman that it is their fault if they go out at night Etc. many martial arts instructor I have met are the same and I truely believe that they are in it for the money that they can make along with teaching regular martial arts etc... so i think a lot of women think - "women's self defense" is blamming and can be held by a really jerk guy.

                I have to go and will write more later. It's hard to keep up when you don't have a computer!
                Thanks!
                erica

                Comment


                • #9
                  Reply 2

                  Hagrid-
                  I have seen IMPACT/Model Mugging and Krav Maga's ads for self defense, but I have only been able to find a statement saying "self defense for women, children, and men" not specifically "Men's Self Defense", like the article is talking about. Do you have a web page or a specific ad you can refer me to as a reference?

                  Rooke- I have never come in contact with a woman who says they do not want excellent body mechanics.... they all tell me they will learn what they have to - to survive.

                  You say -"They don't want excellent body mechanics for a power punch, and in many cases don't want to know fatal points to strike either. They're interested in simply doing the least possible damage to escape a situation. (For the record, I disagree with this).

                  I agree that some woman think, at first, it is gruesome to cause enough dysfunction to escape an attacker, but it is our (as instructors) jobs to tell them that they are worth the fight and that whatever this man has done to them justifies them defending themselves to survive. We teach women to tap into anger and to use it to protect themselves if they choose to fight.t.

                  You say-"By saying "WOMEN'S Self Defense", it immediately let's women know they its a setting where they don't have to feel threatened. "
                  I talked about this in the other post - many sd classes are still taught by jerk guys and that the labeling does not mean that women should feel less threatened, etc.

                  You say"Furthermore, a woman might have different self-defense obstacles than a man (due to society, absolutely). Many fighting positions require mobility and the fist to bring an opponent down. Long nails, high heels, and some clothing might be too restrictive for a woman who might have to wear these as she goes to work. YES, there are better clothes for mobility that are options, but many women don't necessarily go for that (just as many men don't...vanity hits everyone). "

                  I say - every person (not just gender specific - women and men) has different self defense obstacles - please refer to the past post-
                  ....... by the way ...long nails are great for eye strikes and in our class we tell woman to wear whatever they want to practice in...like work clothes etc..b/c we want them to practice realistically..and high heels are great if you want to kick someone...although it sure takes a lot of practice to get accurate..It was really cool, one time in our "Fight Class" a woman used her bike in a scenario b/c she rode it everywhere and wanted to practice using it as a tool to fight with... it was awesome!Point being - she has different obstacles than woman who don't use a bike.

                  you say "Now again, my assertions as you see address the perspective of women I've talked to and known. My viewpoint is that they're not aggressive enough. Then again, testosterone might account for my views since the male androgen is responsible for aggression in a normal psychological make-up. "

                  sorry!!!! I typed this really quick....my spelling and type-o's are horrible!!!!!

                  I enjoyed debating with you!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Male/Femaile

                    There is no such thing as mens self-defence of womens self-defence. One should learn how to fight and how to adapt. There is no difference in finger jabbing a mans eyes to escape than there is to jabbing a females.

                    A good self-defence cours would be one that allows you to adapt to any thing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The class that I teach is strictly self defense - both men and women and children are enrolled: check it out at http://selfdefense.corporatezen.com

                      Erica - I took the Impact Model Mugging Men's Course in Boston in the Spring of 2000. It was a weekend three day, 20 hour retreat for men only. The teacher was a woman, the "muggers" were all BIG men. I have a flier that they sent out, and you might be able to find more info on their website (don't know the URL off hand but you can search for Impact Model Mugging Boston on www.google.com). I guarantee to you, it was a men only course and was advertised as such.

                      The article you posted above, I think it was written to make a point and not necessarily to be debated. I think it makes some good points but it is one, extreme position on the subject. While it may be true that you might have to fight as hard as you can to escape some situations, there are lots of others that you can talk your way out of or avoid altogether. What I liked about Impact was, they taught the verbal, de-escalation piece, before they taught the physical violence piece. As far as avoiding danger, advice to women about not going out alone at certain times and to certain places is just plain good advice. It also applies to men. I used to live in Washington, D.C., believe me there were places I did NOT go, just because it was the smart thing.

                      More later,

                      HAGRID

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK

                        Thats good I'd love to here more.

                        Bye,

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re

                          Hi! Yes, I am not saying I don't believe that there is a Men's self defense class/es out there- I am saying I haven't seen a ad saying "Men's Self Defense Class". Krav Maga also teaches men. I will look more into Model Mugging to see how they advertise. I think it is good to debate - and esp. this article- b/c some self defense instructors have even said that the stat the FBI and Justice Dept. put out about men raping women was wrong - and debating helps educate people.

                          You stated"While it may be true that you might have to fight as hard as you can to escape some situations, there are lots of others that you can talk your way out of or avoid altogether. What I liked about Impact was, they taught the verbal, de-escalation piece, before they taught the physical violence piece. "

                          I agree- we teach the same thing!!! We teach verbal and do stress training - verbal scenarios too! They work great! During our fight class women do not know if the fight will go physical or not and many times they stay verbal. We do a lot of boundary setting which proceeds doing the physical. I think that it is very important to do both like you stated b/c so many times you can descalate a situation with a boundary or even make the attacker label you as a problem rather than a victim.

                          You stated "As far as avoiding danger, advice to women about not going out alone at certain times and to certain places is just plain good advice"

                          I disagree. I do not think that telling people to stay in at night or at certain times is good b/c crime happens at all times of the day and night - not just night- I think telling someone to limit their freedom is not good- I tell them to trust their intuition. If they feel that a situation is bad - then don't go ----either day or night.

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                          • #14
                            Erica -

                            I am all for freedom. However, there are places that one should not go to because the places are not safe, and there are places that are more dangerous in the night than they are in the day. Period.

                            I agree on everything else.

                            Do you want examples?

                            HAGRID

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                            • #15
                              i agree

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