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Why the average Women will not take SDA or Martial arts

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  • Why the average Women will not take SDA or Martial arts

    The question here on this board that everyone keeps skirting around is “ why the average untrained women will not take a Self Defense and Awareness Course, or train long term in a martial art?

    What I would like to do here is allow everyone on this board to list the three top reasons they think women do not or will not train.

    Understand I have a good idea where the misconceptions are within this board because I have read everything on it in this section. I will talk about some of the reasons things are as they are here before I give the reasons I found that the average women does not train. However, I will not list the reasons until after everyone here that wants to participate in this string has done so frist by listing there top 3 reasons woman don’t take SDA or train long term.

    However, I would frist like to make sure this board understands fully where the answers are coming from and how these answers were gained.

    This will take a bit of explaining so I ask that you have patients. In addition, Please if you do not have patients then do not bother to read this or be part of the string. This is not about confrontation but about being open enough to learn something.

    Its important to understand that when I started asking this question it was based on trying to change a cycle. The cycle that I am working on to help, change is the cycle of violence that we deal with in society today. I know this is a grand sort of want and wish to be able to accomplish something that seems such a large task. However, I do not think It has to be that hard to really change or at least start to change the cycles from getting worse to bringing understanding and then answers as to how to change it.

    Unfortunately, it is not always about deciding if your going to become a victim or not. Sometimes Long-term conditioning and examples as we grow up have more to do with wether we will allow ourselves to be victims or if we will fight back and refuse to become one.

    Changing negative examples or negative cycles happens when others start doing, the doers are the ones in the world that bring positive social change. Moreover, its mostly just from them doing and showing the example of how they did it that the change comes about in society and in people. The positive change in others happens mostly because someone else has set an example for others to look at and see and then they can go “ hey…. How come that dude could do that and I cant” i.e. Motivation” to “ you know what I bet I can do that.” Once they have investigated how the example was made.

    On the other hand, we have to look at the realties of what happens because of the negative examples that we give to kids now just based on what we do and do not do. In addition, telling them other then what we are actually doing makes us liars to them.

    Moreover, it seriously tells them that regardless of what we say, we are doing otherwise, and the otherwise is ok regardless of what we tell them because flat out we are doing the opposite.

    Even if your not an abuser or your not giving mixed message at home the fact that most people dont go out and make a statement or go and try and change things again tells our youth that its ok anyway regardless.

    Furthermore, in a childs mind, if it were not the case the people that love them would be making sure they are trying to change it. Children see parents as protectors, If a child sees you deny the state of society and its issues then it is easy for the child to grow up doing the same. This in turn just incorrages the cycles instead of breaking them

    Example One: i.e. you are a wife that has two boys and a daughter, all are under the age of five and the family has been domestic violent throughout their childhood to date. Each day you as the child gets to watch mommy allowing the abuse and listen to her apologizing to you each day it happens, stating that its not daddy’s fault he is either just sick or what ever the reasons she gives to the children that allows him to be abusive. In addition, in most cases she will then assure the children that the behavior is ok because daddy still loves all of us regardless of the abuse.

    What are we telling children by this example?

    70% of all Domestic violence victims were victims of the same at childhood, this means men and woman. The difference is how the long-term effect of the abuse comes out based on the gender differences. Over Half the children of these kinds of relationships, grow up either being abused or being the abuser all of which just re-occurs the cycles of violent crimes.

    Example Two: In society today we give ourselves, are children, and the world huge mixed messages when it comes to sex, sexuality, and what is sexually acceptable. We as people allow these messages to be given to children just by allowing them out there.

    Furthermore, assuming responsibility is not the strong point of the American people. We just blame everyone else instead of standing up and trying to change it. Thus teaching children its about blaming others and not taking responsibility for our actions. We use every excuse in the book to facilitate living in our own personal denial states because it’s just flat out easer for most to do so.

    We tell kids do not have sex and wait until they are adults and get married or have a sexually monogamous relationship, because if you dont, you might get pregnant, or you might die of aides.

    Then we flood the market with sex drugs, we advertise how we are not having enough sex and that we have to take drugs now to make sure we are getting enough sex because we are sexually deprived. Even though we are dying like flies and producing, children faster then our economy can support them.

    Each day I think to myself Ok so who is behind trying to kill the human race off by convincing us that we might die but its ok because overall we need to have more sex regardless of dieing? Because it is not about living anymore it is about having sex, and sex is more important then living.

    Each day this question comes to my mind when I open my email. Each day I get hundreds of emails trying to make my dick bigger or tell me that I am not having enough sex and I have to take drugs to do so, or i have to take to have a fulfilling sex life. That or advertisements for anti depression drugs to make me happy because I am depressed because I am not getting enough sex.

    Then I get flooded by it on TV, radio and in my PO Box. Company is trying to sell me viagra and depression drugs.

    Furthermore, it is being sold to both genders through our mass media. I heard a radio add recently where the woman just told her female friend who was depressed because she no longer is interested in having sex with her partner, how good her sex life had become recently because she started taking the drug and now she cant stand to be in the same room with a man without wanting to just rip off his cloths and get intimate.

    Ok now this is radio and it was in he middle of the day, not only in the middle of the day it was broadcasted at 4pm. Just the time kids are coming home from school and are alone in most cases. Many of our children will do one of two things when they get home. Turn on the TV or tune on the radio.

    Tell me something is this false advertising? Alternatively, do men have the same experience with the drug? Furthermore, can they control themselves or are they like this woman on the radio who is dying to have sex to the point of only thinking about how fast they can get the cloths off the other person? In addition, how is it associated to how men feel about if a woman says no if, they are on the drug?

    In addition, is the drug that strong that it is going to stop him from forcing issue if she says no? In addition, will we start having rape cases where men are using the drug as an excuse to rape woman on the streets?

    Remember this one-day we will see a million dollar suite against one of these companies from someone involved in a viagra rape case.

    (Note I am generalizing here to make a point and I am asking the question as I have because I have no clue how effective this drug really is, also based on the add and how it was presented I am afraid to take the drug because I might start ripping dudes cloths off in public if I took it.)

    NOTE: The reason Hitler was able to do what he did in such a large mass scale was because of the mass media he used to condition and control people to follow him and his presented examples.

    Life in the united states is now based on sex, it is no wonder that children, men and woman are confused as to what their rolls are within society and what to do with sex? We glamorize rape, then we tell children not to let themselves be raped” but in glamorizing the behavior we are at the same time conditioning our children to be acceptant of the behavior, it teaches them its ok"

    “ It is said that 70% of all rapists were victims of sexual or abuse related violent crimes as children.”

    People sometimes look at me and tell me that kids are not stupid and they know the difference from right and wrong. I look at them mostly and tell them flat out that You have to be kidding me how can they know what is right or wrong when they are learning that its ok to do what ever they want based on the examples we has human beings are setting for them?

    To really find out why woman were not training, in 1998 I started sending out questionnaires to all kinds of woman. The average woman, woman that had taken a class in SDA, women that had not. I sent out questionnaires to programs for woman that are in existence via the shelters, I asked questions to victims of said crimes via the same type of institutions. Every year I send out or put out a new set of questions to ask woman throughout the global community.

    Then wile questioning woman between the years of 98 and 2002, I trained, and took SDA and MA programs all around the world to find out if what woman were telling me was real or just perception. I went in to all classes pretending to be a level one student with no training and no history, with all the questions and problems a level one student can bring to a class. I spent my time testing programs, pushing their techniques and asking questions on the floor so I could understand fully why woman don’t train.

    Some of what women claimed made sense, and some if it turned out to be misconceptions based on the fallacies we have in our society now that state martial arts means self defense.

    Without sounding sexist, the fact is 98% of all SDA programs are taught and designed by men that believe they understand what a woman needs and wants in training.

    98% of all traditional or realty based martial arts systems are developed and designed by men for men. Same thing with the traditional core arts, with training in theses arts based on combat for men against men that took place in some instances nearly 400 to 1000 years ago.

    How does all of this relate to why woman do not train? Because it is the daughters we raised 10, 20 and 30 years ago that are the woman now we are trying to train. The daughters and young woman now are going to be raising more woman and men in the next generation. These same women are going to be setting the examples to there children at home. These children will grow into men and woman that will have acceptability levels based on the examples they are given growing up now.

    It is interesting but my general opinions are not always accepted graciously by most strong feminine organizations. Mostly this is because I hold woman more responsible for why and how children grow up and turn out because we as woman have the real power and responsibility with raising our children. We are the ones that have throughout time responsible for nurturing and raising our children. We are the ones that spend the most time with our children or use to be the ones that did so. Because of this fact, it is our raising of them and the examples we set at home for them that will mold who they become.

    Its interesting though most men I have questioned have not really sort of gotten the real reason yet why woman don’t want to train. The one top reason for why a woman does not train in either a self-defense class or a martial arts class, based on what they have stated has little to do with not wanting to sweat. (As is the seemingly general opinion of men why they dont)

    So I would like the men here on this board to be my test study’s, give me your top 3 reasons why you believe woman in general don’t train in SDA or ma?

    Afterwards I will tell you what I learned and found out via my life, and then 6 years of serious R&D. before these 6 years of dedicated R&D, I started protecting and teaching when I was 17. From then on, I spent a lifetime training others and protecting others for a living.

    The clients I guarded, I also trained in core SDA to be sure they understood what to do incase I ate it out there or was injured. That is when I frist started teaching core SDA concepts. In addition, I assure you, the SDA I taught them had little or nothing to do with traditional Martial arts concept. What was taught to my clients then is still taught to them now and is based on awareness, de-escalation, escape and survival tactics with less then 10 basic core physical techniques, which now fall into the realm of level one JKD techniques.

    All education my clients received or receive from me is based on the needs of the clients and the environment they will face. I have worked for a number of different types of people men or woman who were either entertainers, dancers, escorts in the SF bay area to protecting domestic violence victims some with and some without children and to the extreme of a case where clients were trying to stay alive out in the middle of the woods with no help from the police.

    Note: 70% of all dm death happens after the client has tried to leave at least once or has left fully.


    Ms J. Castro

    Lifetime Student-CEO FATE
    Last edited by Ms. J; 07-07-2003, 11:53 PM.

  • #2
    Hello,

    1.Apathy/Denial - These are two things I guess, but they seem to flow together. In my experience, many women feel that men are just too imposing and they reallly couldn't do anything if a man was really motivated."So, why bother?!" Victorian values and other programs have been passed down through generations seriously undermining women's understanding of their potential. Even "self-defense" classes perpetuate this by showing silly "tricks" without developing the physical / psychological / emotional attributes to use them even if they would work. Sometimes the hardest thing to communicate is that it's "ok" to defend yourself and try to tap into a persons indignation.

    2. Classes do not address their needs - It's very easy, as an instructor/coach to fall into the trap of telling people what they need in order to defend themselves. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Each person brings their own preconceptions, concerns, fears, and strengths to class. Many self defense classes do not train holistically (physically/emotionally/psychologically). It's not enough to just show physical techniques out of context and with little/no/ contrived resistance. This refers more to why certain women do not train long term.

    I'm sleepy now, I'll post number three another time.

    Oh yeah, Ms. J, you may want to look into the real effects of viagra before making analogies as that one was pretty off.

    Jerry
    Let us help you on your journey into the best shape of your life, gain earth shattering confidence and develop laser like focus. Join Today!

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    • #3
      viagra

      note: i was using it as the example the way i get it and the way it was presented to me in email, the raido and in hard mail. as far as viagra and the realtys of its useags and why. well, i do realise what the orginal intent was for, however i dont have to use it so its not really an issue other then the way its being presented to me as a huamn being and then the possablitys of it and what it represents to others based on the real expampls being put out there to sell the product.

      ps i am tired too.....

      Ms. j...

      Comment


      • #4
        As you asked for men's opinions of why women don't train MA :

        1) Women are less interested in combative sports and are more likely to take a one-off self defence class than MA as a life long activity.

        2) MA classes are largely filled with testosterone fueled men (wouldn't that put most women off right there?)

        3) MA classes are often taught by male instructors whom don't cater to womens needs (ie. will default to power/strength moves).

        Having said that, I train in a few classes around the country, and there are always a few women attending. I'm not sure that there is such a big issue with women being put off training. I think point 3) is the one to overcome. I've been in some classes where the instructors being patronising to the 'girls' (cringe). I apologise on behalf of my gender....

        Comment


        • #5
          My Response

          Real Knockouts: The Physical Feminism of Woman's Self-Defense
          by Martha McCaughey

          I read several passages in the above book and came up with an academic and visceral reason why women do not take SD classes. I also drew from my own observations.

          1. Lack of Feimininity - McCaughey, a professor of woman's studies concludes that in order to learn real self-defense, a woman must understand that protecting her life means she must drop/forget femininity for the moment in order to overcome a violent situation.

          She defines femininity as a sex-imposed role that women should not behave in a physically aggressive manner. The special classes that she witnessed were 100% female with a female instructor.

          If you look around the public, I would agree that 95% of MA instructors are men and teach self-defense for men. Men usually do not address the femininity issue and can be incorrectly perceived as cheauvanists if the wrong words come out of their mouth. Women, however could convey this idea to their own without potential barriers.

          2. No demand/lack of information - Most women believe they will not experience an assault or rape during their lifetime. This is probably correct. Because of this perception, I think women turn off their radar when it comes to assesing a possible threat and opt to buy pepper spray, tear gas, switch blades or other weapons to mitigate the risk. How fast are these weapons accessible in a suprise situation? How will they react? Can these weapons be overpowered and used against them?

          3. No connection between fitness & self-defense - Overcoming aggression is as physical as it is mental. All things being equal, a woman who is physically fit has a better chance of surviving aggression than one who isn't but fitness alone is not self-defense. The women who do aerobics/taebo are often not the ones who are in self-defense classes - vice versa. Some women perceive martial arts as merely a cardio class and instead opt for tae bo, thinking it is a legit method.

          Comment


          • #6
            McCaughey quotes a beginner female boxer who took boxing for self-defense and fitness.

            'The female boxer says at first she was put off by the perception of sweaty, aggressive guys socking each other. One of her profound changes occured when she realized that she could not only take a hard punch, but she could throw one.'

            I have seen this in real life. I know a woman who has been boxing as long as I have and she has really fast hands and hard punches. She doesn't shake up when she knows she is going to get hit and tries her best to get the angle and fire away. Yet, she does not look like what you imagine a female boxer looks like - she's a good looking young lady.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Life in the united states is now based on sex, it is no wonder that children, men and woman are confused as to what their rolls are within society and what to do with sex? We glamorize rape, then we tell children not to let themselves be raped” but in glamorizing the behavior we are at the same time conditioning our children to be acceptant of the behavior, it teaches them its ok" "


              Ms. J, I completely agree with this. Can you possibly send me an email? I'll PM you and give you my business email address, I'd like to get some info from you if I can.


              Thanks,
              Ryu

              Comment


              • #8
                I never gave this much consideration before. Well I guess I never thought this was a problem. Now that I think about it there is a large disparity between male and female students. I think martial arts in general hasn’t done a very good job promoting itself towards women, nor does most of the hype or types of hype there is in martial arts appeal to women.

                If I were to take a stab at why women tend not join or why they don’t seem to stick with it I would say;
                1) Female role models. There are few and far between and the few well known one’s the average woman on the street has never heard of before.
                2) Harassment or at least the fear of it. Stereotypes are that girls can’t hit or statement like dyke bait or the condescending “please don’t beat me up” comments from men Etc.
                3) Of course there is the ol’ “it’s a man’s sport”, or girls don’t do these types of things. Up bringing and lack of encouragement from parents. Girls tend to be steered away from contact sports and more toward stuff like gymnastics, soccer or dance. I guess I am saying for societal reasons.

                I’m sure I don’t know the whole picture, but I think these are some of them. It will be interesting to find out more on this subject.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Case in point: The classes at Fairtex are about half-women. And that's a hardcore place. They have female role models and don't let all but the most advanced of guys spar with the women.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not sure what you are referring to with regards to " We glamorize rape..." Please explain how.

                    Also unclear on "dying like flies". Human life expectancy is higher than it has ever been. Definitely there are more people, so I suppose more people = more annual deaths.



                    Tom Yum,

                    I ahve not yet read that book, although your first to points are along the same lines of what I was referring to with regards to apathy/ denial and overcoming imposed Victorian values.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Jerry,

                      It's not so much the glamorization of actual "rape" but more the glamorization of what is fast becoming known as "rape culture."

                      A case in media might be films being made that subtly promote women as "deserving" of bad treatment and domination. A lot of these types of things are marketed for young men (13-17) too, and promote not only the "weak and inferior" women type role, but also hype up the overly masculine, tough guy/anti-hero male role too. (Things like the movie "The Transporter" for instance is wracked with overtones of sexual domination over women, asian bondage fetishes, etc.) It's highly offensive if really understood.

                      Because it's so subtle, a lot of people (men and women alike) don't seem to realize or catch notice of the underlining "mentalities" going on through some of the films. What usually seperates the "hero/damsel" movies from the "rape culture/anti-hero" type entertainment is usually seen within the mentality of the story.
                      One depicts men and women as individuals in certain situations where they may need the others help, etc. The others depict situations of extreme male on female domination whether it be through mental aggression, physical actions, etc.

                      As a man who has spent his life training for physical strength, size, power, but also compassion, family values, love and respect for people, spouses, girlfriends, etc. I feel that a lot of what is deemed as "rape culture" entertainment is not just insulting to women, but is STRONGLY insulting to men. A lot of people, however, don't want to feel bad for what they are entertained by...

                      A real man is someone who is strongly devoted to family, community, and the protection of those things dear to him. Society packs a lot of misunderstood burdens on men as well, and constantly bombards them with the idea that "real men" can't show emotions, be romantic, be chivalrous to women, etc.
                      It's strongly frustrating to men, and is (in my opinion) a very strong reason for a lot of the repressed feelings and anger a lot of men seem to hold.

                      I mean, take a look at what I just wrote above. Standing up about what's unethical, speaking up for men's right to show emotion, sadness, tears, etc., being upset at entertainment that paints women as "toys", or things to be dominated......these grievences should be supported by men, and cheered as a strong male value.....
                      ........instead you hear talk about being "gay" this, or "sissy" that, or "real men don't take shit" etc.
                      It's all fallacy.

                      Well.....this has become kind of a long post, and I've gone off on a completely different subject! I guess that will be it for now.

                      Take care all,
                      Ryu
                      Last edited by Ryu (JKD?); 07-08-2003, 08:37 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ryu,

                        I feel you. Although, with that explanation in mind, I feel that this presence of "rape culture" is not growing but, rather shrinking. Keeping with media and movies in particular, I'm a big movie fan and can remember way more movies with this sort of undertone when I was younger and even more in movies made before I was born. Think of the exploitation movies of the late 50's through early 70's.

                        I'm with you on male roles in society.

                        Jerry

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                        • #13
                          (Cough) There are many more flies on planet earth than the roughly 6 billion humans.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            flies

                            Terry: Ok so i was impassioned when i was writing about dropping like flies. However, the death rates associated to sexually transmitted diseases and violent crime are very high and i have the stats here somewhere based on the past 20 years. Not just for aids but other sexually transmitted diseases as well that cause death. I just have to look them up and break them down if i want me to post them, and i am being somewhat lazy today. Give me a day or so and if you like i will post them.

                            Furthermore, yes there are other things that are killing our youth and adults in society but the fact is that the death rates for the young under 25 years old are mostly due to violence (this includes abuse and neglect), drugs, sexual diseases, starvation, and suicide (which is just a bi product of the said problems in society and the stress on children now based on what is actable and expected of them because of such)

                            The starvation rates and infant mortality rates on a global level have not gotten better over the past 20 years, and i believe in 1998 the stat was that an average of 19000 people die each day of malnutrition and that most of 19000 per day are children. Child neglect is a crime, its classified in some states and instances as a violent crime.

                            Take just that stat, (and its higher now) add to it the other rates of death to the total (which in many cases are higher then starvation amongst children) then base it on the total amount of children in the world. To me, it is bad and equal to dropping like flies based on the averages and numbers.

                            The highest killer to woman between the ages of 30 to 45 is heart disease, and its now been proven that the said heart disease rates in American woman is due to lack of minim low impact exercise, high stress rates and improper diet.

                            NOTE: Innocent comments by Ms. J…..) See now training in realty-based martial arts or self defense and awareness courses would help change that rate. the arts are the perfect venue for helping to reduce the death rates to woman in the age group of 30 to 45. Seems a perfect program depending on how it was marketed….

                            · Granted some smart person needs to sort of use that for they’re marketing of classes to get woman to take them.

                            · Might not be a bad thought to teach programs to woman in Equal yin yang teams on the floor instead of just by a mans direction and instruction.

                            · Also possibly with some programs out there men should consider revamping programs that were designed just by men for woman by working with a woman on an equal level to bring programs best suited for the cliental your trying to teach.

                            I cannot exactly remember the totals for men and actual cause of the highest death is right now, though. However, I believe I think it is simalar to the reasons woman are dying, but I will look it up again frist and post it latter after I am done being lazy for a wile.

                            Ms. J...

                            Hanging out and being lazy...


                            PS. Ryu, i have a letter that i started writing earlier in reply to your post, but i am being lazy right now and dont wana correct it all, however i promess to finish it latter tonight...

                            Btw excellent post i applaud you...

                            Ms J bows deeply to Ryu
                            Last edited by Ms. J; 07-09-2003, 01:21 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ms. J,

                              Please don't think I am being maliciously contrarian, but again I have to disagree with some of your statements. As a general rule, I hate statistics as they tend to be subject to distortion and misrepresentation, however since we're talking stats:

                              "Furthermore, yes there are other things that are killing our youth and adults in society but the fact is that the death rates for the young under 25 years old are mostly due to violence (this includes abuse and neglect), drugs, sexual diseases, starvation, and suicide (which is just a bi product of the said problems in society and the stress on children now based on what is actable and expected of them because of such) "

                              For starters, the number one cause of death for children under the age of 25 is unintentional injury, specifically MVA's (motor vehicle accidents. STD's and starvation are not even in the top five. It is, however, disturbing to see just how high the suicide and homicide rates are.

                              It seems as thought the stats you cited were from a global study? That would make sense why the starvation rates were so high although it probably has less to do with neglect than poverty.

                              The highest cause of death for women from 30-45 seems to be split between MVA's and cancer. Heart disease being number 3.

                              All that being said, I do agree that health conscios advertising toward women 30-45 would be a viable option.


                              Take care,
                              Jerry

                              Sources:


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