To Women On This Forum

[Lizard]

Originally posted by jen33
You men are so funny! Coming together and saying that you're proud to be men! Ha Ha Ha! Really!

I'm glad we entertained you. Have you ever noticed that it's the violent, aggressive, selfish gender that is in charge of everything? The world would be a better place if everything was controled by women but because they aren't agressive and power-hungry, women rarely do well in politics. The system prevents the gender that would be best at leading from ever becoming leaders!

[jen33]

Are you being sarcastic, or do you really mean what you say? It was hard to tell since you didn't end sarcastically. Men aren't the only power-hungry ones you know. Look at Martha Stewart! Of course she was charcged for insider trading!

[Tom Yum]

Jen, Lizard is somewhat of a feminist wearing rose colored glasses.

Women and men are both reduced to their biggest flaws when money and power cross their paths.

It just so happens in the current age women are just starting to get to the top, but still have to go through the same BS that guys give em........plus what other women do to them as well.

[Ms. J]

Dont forget the part about what women do to themselves by allowing long term gender based issues to keep and hold them back from doing what is necessary to excel and go beyond what is considered proper and normal for women based on such.

Also the part about how we as women continually keep raising boys into men based on the same negative gender based issues that are allowing boys to grow up into men with such issues. These are the same issues that cause us as women to have to fight so hard to get anywhere on a business and professional level.

Women, men, government and society at large continue to re-create the cycle of negative gender based issues during the raising of our children. However we seem to spend more time talking about the negative effects of gender issues instead of trying to change them. Instead we as a people live in a denial state and pretend its either not there, or will disappear on its own by complaining about it instead of doing something to change it.

For the past 50 years the world and its people have talked about how bad society is getting, and it continues to get worse mostly because we are still sitting around talking about how bad its getting.

Ms J... bows deeply

[Lizard]

Stop bowing deeply. Don't make me hate you.

When I was young I was always told that boys should never hit girls because they are weak. I think that although this idea is supposed to protect girls it gives the impression that girls are inferior to boys. Not good at all.

I would like to pretend that I never made my last comment. I don't want to delete it because that is not my way. It was just a passing thought.

[cakegirl]

Originally posted by Ghost
You are a man therefore you should visit the web site www.womanbasher.com
and www.feelguiltytobemale.com

I think that the 'all men are potential rapists' idea is a pretty unfair assessment of gender... The fact is that of the millions and millions of men out there, most of them are not rapists! Let's celebrate that!

And on a self-defence note, women, let's evaluate what makes that small percentage of men become rapists, and learn to defend ourselves against that, instead of being unhealthily paranoid, believing that 50% of the people we see every day want to violate us.

Cakegirl

Rate your risk! http://rateyourrisk.org/

[Ms. J]

evaluation, Ms.... J.. Style

Cake girl wrote: let's evaluate what makes that small percentage of men become rapists, and learn to defend ourselves against that, instead of being unhealthily paranoid, believing that 50% of the people we see every day want to violate us.


Well, to be quite honest if you really want to evaluate and learn what causes the majority of men that are rapists to evolve into rapists we frist have to look at the real definition of rape and who is classified as being capable of being raped on a legal level. If it was my choice anyone that was sexually molested, assaulted, raped or forced to participate in a sexual act of any kind without their consent regardless of age, gender or sexual preferences should be considered raped.

However, on a legal level until your 13 years old its not considered rape in most cases but molestation. Because apparently in most states rape only happens to an adult or a child over the age of 13. In addition, many times its only woman that are counted and boys and men are not.(Why is that? Furthermore, i have promised others and myself that someday i will help change these inconsistency’s on a serous level. )

So let us say I want to base my evaluation it on what i feel rape is and should be legally, i would say that women are equally (If not more) responsible then men are for raising boys into rapists.

We as woman throughout time have allowed men to treat us like crap in front of our children. By doing this we continue to (as i have stated now a number of times) help to re-occur the cycle of abuse and victimization that incorrages men to have issue that will cause them to have such a lack of respect for themselves and for woman, men and children that they will do what they please when they please and rape someone.

Futhermore, Long term, There are huge control issues that come with being a rapist, molester, or abuser. add the long-term gender based issues, as well as today’s society where rape is glamorized and accepted helps to incorrate rape and abuse in todays socity. Each day we teach our children to accept more violence in their lives, on an almost constant level we allow our children to be desensitized to it, to accept it, and to look at it as acceptable and part of their lives.

We have young woman allowing themselves to be treated like trash based on there own low self esteem issues, just by what they believe they should look like to attract men. futhermore in todays soicty many young women believe its ok to be called a bitch by her man, (his bitch because apparently it means they belong to their man.) I would have sliced and diced any man that called me a bitch in that manor when i was a young woman. To me a bitch is a female dog that is used for breading, controlling and owning only based on a single persons whim.

See no one really wants to face the real long term issues, nor do they want to deal with why woman have over thousands of years accepted being treated poorly and allowed their sons to be raised in a manor that facilitates the reoccurrence of the negative gender based issues that help make boys into rapists and abusers as men.

This is because if people and society in general do look honestly at the reality’s of why a man rapes, abuses and molests, then they have to face the truth that most of the gender based issues that hold woman and men back from evolving into decent human beings comes from thousands of years of culture, governments, and religions that have always been conceived, dictated and controlled by men.

However, its we as woman who have allowed it to be so. Moreover, after saying all of that, when i have tried to discuss the subject honestly without bad intent on this board in the past i was called melodramatic. However I was not being melodramatic, just very analytical and honest.

Granted... it was said by a man.... (Note: whom I have high regard for and have considered my friend for a number of years now)

Moreover, because he called me that I got a complaint by the moderator of this board. Again, who for some reason is a man? Interesting that they have a man moderating a woman’s counter offensive board.

So how do we learn to defend against what causes men to become rapists?

We stop allowing our sons to be raised where they watch mommy being slapped around, treated like dirt and then having mommy telling them latter its ok daddy loves us its just he is sick or what ever the excuse is, we stop glamorizing rape and we look closely at the present rape culture. Furthermore we start raising our children with respect, love and positive intent, instead of allowing them to raise themselves, wile we lie to them and treat them like shit, neglect them, beat them and toss them out as throwaway baby’s.

So in the end its we as women who are the ones that have to take control of our lives, and our children’s futures to protect against what causes men to become rapists. Furthermore its the examples we set as our children grow up that will mold them into adults, we can do what is right and help them become caring individuals that have positive self esteem and loving hearts instead of men that are rapests and woman that allow themselfs to be treated like trash and dirt, because they don’t have enough self respect nor self esteem for themselves or others to understand what is right and wrong when it comes to long term gender issues and sexuality.


Ms J…….

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Christ, more pink dress prophetic nonsense...

[Lizard]

I do believe all men are potential rapists. The men who raped passed on their genes in situations where men who didn't rape didn't. It's called Evolution. Recently (VERY recently) we have created a society where rape is considered wrong and must be punished. Most men manage to supress their instinct to rape but it's still there.

[IPON]

Regarding Lorne post......I think it is a good idea to have SD classes targeting issues which affect women. I read one of your articles and agree it is not necessary to stress "women" becuase of perception but as stated on other posts MA is MA. Ususally, there are "womens only defese" wohich are taught at many MA schools, but stay with a martial focus as it will accomidate of the SD issues. Regular traing is the key and the take home should be in a seminar train regularly for health and safety, boxing, asian MA ect.

The reality is, with regular training is hard enough for people (men/women) to react (not freeze) in a "REAL" situation when they are training on a regular basis. a few techniques at a seminar will not save a person and could escalate the situation. If a person is "thinking" of a technique in a situation it can't be real, and a person should train to react (instintivly).

I am a Man and agree with your passion. Unfortunately, there are Men and there are males - your issues is with males. Men generally, understand respect and sresponsibility. And remeber women rape other women. The reason it is not considered rape for a man is because of the taboo (man/man) and shame of (woman/man), if it happens don't talk about it.

Also, telling a woman not to run at night/go out alone at night (depending aon your location) is simply logical. It is not right that these SICK SICK acts happen, but you have to be realistic and take procautions. This is a crazy country and alot of horribal things happen that do not make the front pages. In order to not be a statics learn from the stats. If you walk down the stret in a G-sting alone at 1am should someone put there hands on you HELL NO, but we both know the reality someone might and why tempt fate on principe (I know that is a silly example I was just making a point).

People have to take procautions and not disrespect themselves the club/college scences across the US is crazy with one night stands. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. As a man I would never strike or degrade an woman because of the way I was raised and my values. not becuase some may be weaker. Becasue I was raised to view women as givers of life and deserviving he ulitimate respect. Humans are human and not all women deserve individual respect of course (just as all men do not).

The take home message is definately empowerment and I think you have made a great start. From one passionate person to another, I would tone down the male bashing becuase the root of all raise the standard and empower women and free them from tradition (to the point where it is not equal). Your message can be lost with (to women and men) with too much conspiracy theory and man bashing, just my thoughts. Keep up the good work!!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
Christ, more pink dress prophetic nonsense...

It's quite sad that you'd say that. Really it is.

Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Very nicely put, IPON.

I very much agree.

Ryu

[Ms. J]

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
Christ, more pink dress prophetic nonsense...

*****

Ok so i am lost who wares pink dresses in this day and age?


In addition, no matter what I say it is possible that no one will necessarily see it this way. The male thing, yes woman are capable of raping men, however the majority of men and boys that are molested or raped are raped by men not women. there are more woman that batter there childern then men. however the numbers do not even compare long term to the rape or molestation that takes place on boys by men compaired to woman that molest or rape boys. yes it happens and yes woman are capable of it, and there are many cases of what we call statchatory rape with older woman and young men and much worse, but.......

However, i again will stipulate i am not bashing men by stating the facts and i further again state that woman and men are both equally responsible for it and its continuance.

Tell me how many men talk to their sons about sexual molestation before it happens? They might talk to there daughters but do they talk to their sons about it and how to avoid it and how to stop a rape or how not to be sexually assaulted by the preacher of their church or guidance consoler at school or the football coach? do they teach them how not to be gang raped by the local gang that they are trying not to join? see these are the issues men and boys face, that we say and state are taboo. and what does raping a boy do to him?

do we think about the issues that make a man into a rapest? as i stated before sometimes its example and sometimes it can be the cause from the past instance of violence against them. and how the after effects of the damage were delt with. in most of our past hisorty its been so taboo boys never got or get treatment for the rape or molestation and its hidden.

on the other hand how many men talk to their sons about having sex for the frist time with a girl and how many men take and have taken there sons to professionals for there frist sexual encounter when they are 15 and 16 years old or younger in some cases? In addition, what does that tell sons?

More mixed messages and not protecting children based on " being male and taboo?

Ms. J... Bows deeply

[Mr. Heel Hook]

All right, I really had no interest in getting into this foray of this presumptuous crap that is being spewed right and left. So I will say my piece and leave it at that. But of course, I am not speaking on statistical fact, am I?

I believe cake girl put it best when she said: "I think that the 'all men are potential rapists' idea is a pretty unfair assessment of gender... The fact is that of the millions and millions of men out there, most of them are not rapists! Let's celebrate that!"

Who the hell are any of you to speak on what I might and might not have done; or even worse, what I am thinking. Do you really think my ability to judge right and wrong pertaining to rape came from the understanding of my parent. My father died when I was very young, and my mother never even explained what the birds and bees where all about, nevertheless though, I turned out not to be a rapist. Hell, I don't even think of gender as being a different thing in many cases. This seemingly (to you) unique mind set of mine didn't come from the fact of growing up with a women in my life. I don't think my father would have nurtured an idea of women being inferior for some reason... I guess you could call it a gut feeling.

The fact (since you like to use that word so much) is that not all men are rapist. Hell, in comparison to a country of 300 million people, how many fill those shoes. 1% or maybe even up to 3%? (Oh, I am sure you will do some research on this to toot your horn) The fact is, you don't know me, you don't my friends (who apparently have the potential to be rapist) you don't even know the people on this message board. But you would so disrespectfully throw around assumptions such as this.

Women should be taught how to defend themselves, and rape is a horrible thing, that it too true. Along with that, I myself believe that the punishment for it should be far worse than it is. However, I don't go around with the mindset that all men who aren't properly groomed and educated, or that watch television shows that "glorified" rape will become some kind of beastial monster. That's just crap.

The original poster decided to get out his soap box and chastise every one of my gender because we are all hidden monsters inside. Like aforementioned, I don't like being psychoanalyzed and told what I could have been. Yeah, I guess I was one of the lucky ones. Thank goodness my genes didn't turn me into a sexual predator.

It is revolting to say the least that any one in this day and age would try and group together a gender in such a way. In my life I have never thought of women as a target to be abused at my leisure. I'll even go out on a limb and say 99% of the people on this board haven't either. But you would try and say other wise in any form or fashion through gender innuendoes and what not?

I called it prophetic nonsense because you seem to have determined the out come of so many; almost as though if they don't follow your formula they are doomed to be an abomination. That is a true shame because so many are doomed to be monsters unless they are properly educated. All I can say to that is thank the lord I am one of the lucky ones. No one ever told me rape was a bad thing. I just kind of knew for some ... odd ... reason.

There are monsters in this world, predatory ones that are looking for those to make victims of. This cruel fact is the one true truth that can be said. We all should be empowered with the ability to at least fight back. To strike them down with our minds -- and our bodies if need be. But there are also good and decent people out in this world of ours too. Seems everyone should get an equal footing with this idea.

Assumption is an ugly thing, and it is why most people don't publicly speak of these things in a public forum. The people who could never do such things would not take to heart what was being said because of the accusatory fashion. I sure as hell couldn't. I guess that must be my savage side ... go figure, ne?

You have turned what is a good message into a witch hunt of sorts. There are to many fingers being point in a wild swirling fashion. Violence is not born from the heartless abyss of the media or television alone. That idea is truly absurd. People are people before they are anything else. There are good people, there are bad people. I, like you have probably seen an "action flick" or two. We may react differently to it, but I can certainly assure you that I don't want to run out with my M-16 and go onto some murderous-raping rampage. It's just not me...

If movies and television where the spawn of violence, than hell, Japan would be the murder capital of the known universe. Us ugly men in America would have a lot of catching up to do. But luckily, that is a myth.

You have put to prophecy the outcome of so many people that it has become flat out distasteful, and to me it seems you are on the other side of the coin. There are men who are chauvinistic bastards who don't think a woman is on equal footing in anyway whatsoever. But than they are woman like you, who believe we are all subhuman simians at best with our manhood hanging between their legs just looking for an opportunity to use it

You have become the product of your own ground breaking stereotype. And I for one, would like to be left out of it.

[IPON]

Ms J. I agree, mostly, with what you say and apologize for the typos (I am lost without spell check)

My point regarding taboo and men/boys was in response to your question:
"However, on a legal level until your 13 years old its not considered rape in most cases but molestation. Because apparently in most states rape only happens to an adult or a child over the age of 13. In addition, many times its only woman that are counted and boys and men are not.(Why is that? Furthermore, i have promised others and myself that someday i will help change these inconsistency’s on a serous level. )"

My point was that the reason men/boys are not captured is becuase of taboo or shame in cases of abuse/molestation/rape. There are no rape classes for men and men do get raped, the incidence of domestic violence toward men is suprisiningly high and it does not get repoted becuase of the shame taboo. (not to take away form the central theme it is just a point). Lorne talked about the perception of "women's" selfense....what would your knee jerk reaction be if you saw a rape defense class for men, honestly (as I am typing, my thoughts are "what this must be for a wuss or gay)

Regarding the rest of my post it was directed to Lorne and her website. Which I thought was very good. I know you have to be direct and "BIG" in presentation somtimes to "wakeup" people and get their attention, but I was constructively stating that for her site and message maybe viewed as too over the top, (extremist, male bashing or conspiracy theory, etc.) and if so she will loose males and females that will support her cause.

In the most general sense Lorne is correct about the rape culture of this society.....we experience rape from the government, insuance companies down to the level of the individual. To say that this is a rape culture in the context of the individuals, indicating that we openly approve of rape is not true. There are alot of forms of rape and unfortunately both men and women are not on the same page when it comes to this subject and yes it is a responsibility on both parts to some degree. It is hard to prevent attacks, especially when the are people you trust, clregy, teacher, family or seniors. The sickest case I dealt with was a woman who was raped from the age of 12-19 by her father and two brothers, so I am not speaking from an armchair perspective.

My point for including the types of homo/hetero-sexual rape were just to clarify that the issue is rape not men per se, (and I do agree that the majority of reported cases are male/female). We train in martial arts and at least one aspect of that traing is defense. I do not train with the understanding that the average person I meet will not have any formal training in and asian or indonesian style. I train with the assumption that my opponent is a full range fighter. If they are not my job should be easier.

By example, I think the message is to understand what is rape, how it can happen, who does it and how to avoid it. There is no brainwashing but there is an abundance of issues regarding self esteem and ignorance and the goal is to enlighten and remove the ignorance and empower.

MA is definately a vehicle, however, MA is not like riding a bike your have to constantly practice so if Lorne is giving seminars that is great. The problem with any seminar is that people have to practice. So at the seminars women should be encouraged to study with lorne or find a MA to study even if it is boxing...real boxing (not aerobic boxing).