I ran, and I'm proud of it

[mrniceguy148]

quoted by gregimotis

"In other words, once he makes physical contact, she has lost whatever control of the situation she might have had."
........... your saying that once a lady is grabbed she has nothing.

that is bad advice my friend

Les

My sentiments exactly!

[osopardo]

............................................................................................

[TylerDurden]

Its easy for a guy to trivialize and say she overreacted. She did the right thing, surrounded, outnumbered by opponents who were obviously stronger. She attacked, created an opening and got out of there. If a guy is in the same situation, we most likely catch a beating, no big deal. She and her friend were looking at a potential rape. Bottom line, she protected herself and her friend. Good job.

[osopardo]

Its easy for a guy to trivialize and say she overreacted. She did the right thing, surrounded, outnumbered by opponents who were obviously stronger. She attacked, created an opening and got out of there. If a guy is in the same situation, we most likely catch a beating, no big deal. She and her friend were looking at a potential rape. Bottom line, she protected herself and her friend. Good job.

My sediments eggzagly!

[hikickinchick]

wowww i got on a mission trip for a few months and i come back to this....this thread has like totally gone anal...i meant for it to just be a story of what happened to me and what I did, and if there was anything else that I could do better next time...I'm still not really sure wat mrniceguy has against me but I just did what I thought was right...these guys had seriously creeped me out and from all the stories i had heard, I wasn't about to let anything happen...some person actually did get raped not too far from my school about a month ago, and I'm still kind of paranoid about it...I know two people who did get gang-raped, and one of the people said that it started pretty much the same way, except she was alone. I'm glad this has had an impact on so many people, but really! I come back and this thing is like 7 pages long, and most of it arguing...thx for all who defended me tho!

[osopardo]

...I'm still not really sure wat mrniceguy has against me but I just did what I thought was right......thx for all who defended me tho!

Welcome back! I was wondering why you hadn't weighed in again in the discussion and was thinking I'd never seen anyone exercise so much restraint.

I don't think mrniceguy has anything against you, he's just a little delusional regarding what constitutes an appropriate response to being accosted and touched without consent.

I believe strongly that you did the only right and appropriate thing.

Keep training and keep kicking!

[mrniceguy148]

wowww i got on a mission trip for a few months and i come back to this....this thread has like totally gone anal...i meant for it to just be a story of what happened to me and what I did, and if there was anything else that I could do better next time...I'm still not really sure wat mrniceguy has against me but I just did what I thought was right...these guys had seriously creeped me out and from all the stories i had heard, I wasn't about to let anything happen...some person actually did get raped not too far from my school about a month ago, and I'm still kind of paranoid about it...

Hi highkickchick,

I ‘m glad to see that you were able to get back to us! Understand, I don’t have anything against you. In fact, I said earlier that I was glad to see that you, and the guy who you kicked, both seem to have come out of the ordeal unharmed.

Having said that, I can also say that you were lucky that the guys who threatened you turned out to be a bunch of wimps. If not then you probably would have gotten your head handed to you! For all intents and purposes, you started a fight when you should have, and could have, simply walked away! Fighting under those circumstances might be good martial arts but it’s also lousy self-defense. For further clarification, please reread all of my previous posts in this thread.

In light of how you handled the situation, my advice to you would be to supplement your MA training with some real-world instruction in women’s self defense; such as RAD, Impact, Model Mugging, etc.,. Also, I’d suggest that you read a few good books on the subject, and then come back and tell me how you might have handled the situation differently, because next time you might not be so lucky!

Again, please reread all of my posts in this thread because everything that I have to say about this incident is already here somewhere………….You seem to have missed some of the points that I was trying to make. Just trying to help……………..

Take care,
Mr. Niceguy

[hikickinchick]

I do appreciate everyones opinions....in my view, what happened was these guys had tried to get my friend and me to go with them when we didn't want to. We said no, and they surrounded us - instant code orange. At that point we couldn't walk away, because we'd have to force ourselves through a few very large guys that were much taller and heavier than we were.

Nevertheless, we tried backing up a bit, at which point he stopped me by grabbing me. My view on it is what my teacher told me - as long as they don't touch you, you can't do anything to them. But as soon as they lay a hand on you, and you feel threatened by it, go at it - but do only what you have to to get away. And that's what I did - I think any of those fancy hapkido moves for getting him off me would have done only that--get him off me. And once he was off, then what? He's only off, not disabled. And by these guys' intent, I think THAT would have angered him and he might have done something worse to us.

But by disabling him, and kind of shocking the other guys, it gave us a chance to break free. If the others had gone for us--well, in all reality we probably wouldn't be able to do anything, but we'd at least be able to get in a few good hits--I think I could have disabled at least one more of them if I'd had to; luckily, I didn't.

I wasn't really thinking of that at that point; it was pretty much he grabbed me, I responded in the only way I knew that would work. There's not much to be done that can change it now...I value your opinion, and I will think on it, but I still believe that I did what was best for me.

[kengar]

hikickinchick, you acted in the best way you could in a situation like that. You were being physically restrained with the intention to take you to a secluded area. Do have to pummel a person anytime your touched? No. but in this situation you actted with diligence and second guessing and haste could have allowed you to be raped, assaulted among other things.

don't mind the people who have their heads up their a$$ that don't think you should physically assault another person until they are in the middle of raping or murdering you.

[Tom Yum]

True it is just that many women get carried away with themselves. But it's completely 100% okay for me to beat up kids because i'm having a bad day. Do as a say not as a do.

what about those other hobbies of yours like picking fights with hobos, kicking your dog when your team looses and hittin' your old lady cause she wants to get a college education...jj.

[konghan]

Thanx everyone for the replies, and support...swan, I had seen one of them around before, but I didn't know who they were. They did get in trouble, though one of them didn't go to my school. The two who did, got suspended, though they didn't actually do anything other than invade personal space so it wasn't for very long.

As for the whole rethinking MS thing....I'm not sure quite what you meant but I'll try to answer it as best I can.

I knew all along that my art (mixed TKD and hapkido) wasn't really good for a lot, because the TKD is a lot of sport, and I haven't been practicing the Hapkido long enough for any of it to become instinctive. But I guess subconsciously, I felt that since I took a MA, I could defend myself a lot better than other people could. But now I realize that it doesn't really change my chances much, because though it does give me some good solid techniques, they aren't instinctive yet, (i.e., a side kick to the knee, which is one of our escape techniques, or a roundhouse to the side). Also, I do panic, same as any other person, MA's or no. Some of the other classes and seminars I've been to helped me remember what to do, such as keep a firm voice and take the first chance for escape. I do think I reacted a lot better than my friend, who was frozen and had no idea what she could do.

I think taking a MA gave me some confidence, not that I could beat them, but that I at least knew what I was supposed to do, and knew how to assess the situation. My friend had never been to any seminars or classes, and she probably would have let herself be forced to go with them, had she been by herself.

I'm not really sure if I worded that right, but I hope you can make sense of some if it! Also, in my classes, I have asked the instructor to focus on a lot of 'utility kicks', such as powerful front snap kicks and low side/roundhouse, for if I ever want to take someone down and keep them down (for injuring/breaking the knee0. I've been drilling in them a lot in classes, and have been practicing a lot at home. It's actually improved my focus a lot.

Any advice from anyone on what else I could start doing? Basically all I've got so far are front kick, and low roundhouse....any ideas for anything that would actually work against an opponent?

Women, ladies or girls are generally softer than man. Aiming for vital body parts is always the best technique espacially the groin area. The use of the chi or qui power is vital since there is no way a woman can go head to head strenght for strenght against man. Practice set sparring with a partner, train in a realistic manner emphasied on power utilization, dodging, side stepping, rapid attack ( women are more flexible ), move around , give your attacker the STARE OF DEATH. Facial expression can scare off an attacker. But as always the best defense is presence of mind. Don`t go to places you don`t feel comfortable. Proper MA training that include form will develop your sense of danger ( sixth sense ), condition your mind to react automatically from an attack ( ex. somebody who is about to grab you, auto react by parrying away the hands or moving away before he could grab you or reacting from a blind side attack ), your sense of confidence & judgement will also develop. Remember MA is about survival, look around your surrounding grab a weapon the buttom line is be street smart.

[TNT]

kudos koghan

nice to see this all back on track....and with such a succinct and lucid comment..kudos konghan.......and yes don't underestimate the power of that stare...i have the privilege to train with all black belts....(long story)... and they have always commended me on my ferocity...so while I work at gaining their skills ...at least I know I have at least one aspect down pat

Women, ladies or girls are generally softer than man. Aiming for vital body parts is always the best technique espacially the groin area. The use of the chi or qui power is vital since there is no way a woman can go head to head strenght for strenght against man. Practice set sparring with a partner, train in a realistic manner emphasied on power utilization, dodging, side stepping, rapid attack ( women are more flexible ), move around , give your attacker the STARE OF DEATH. Facial expression can scare off an attacker. But as always the best defense is presence of mind. Don`t go to places you don`t feel comfortable. Proper MA training that include form will develop your sense of danger ( sixth sense ), condition your mind to react automatically from an attack ( ex. somebody who is about to grab you, auto react by parrying away the hands or moving away before he could grab you or reacting from a blind side attack ), your sense of confidence & judgement will also develop. Remember MA is about survival, look around your surrounding grab a weapon the buttom line is be street smart.

[konghan]

There are better areas then the groin to strike even though many women considder than nailing a guy in the balls will stop them. I can tell you first hand it wont. I have been nailed in the nuts and it doesnt really hurt all that bad untill a few moments later (not exactly what you want). I have kicked other guys in the nuts and have had them keep on coming. Typically if you have a determined attacker a nut shot only makes them angry. While you can use it i would rather strike other areas (dependant upon opportunity; jaw, chin, nose, temple, diafram. There are much better places to strike, just because a ball shot has a reputation doesnt mean that it the most effective.

The us army hand to hand combat manual has diagrams of striking principals. It is published online but is watered down. Although the online version includes groundfighting and the printed doesnt, the online doesnt have the striking principals chart and all that good stuff.

In general though i second most of your advice.

US Army Hand to Hand Combat Manual
http://www.booktrail.com/Military_El...2021%20150.asp

Definitely there are other vital parts of the body to attack, but for a woman to try to attack the upper part will be bit too risky unless she is really a train expert in martial art. Upper part body is always the first place that a person will defend that is why the first things you`ll see a person do is to wave his arm guarding their upper part particularly the head also a woman cannot risk getting too close to its attacker & try wrestling with him unless her attacker is smaller, lighter & she for her to be really good with her MA other than that she will be putting her self in a very risky situation if she try to wrestle with her attacker.

As far as the groin is concern, just like attacking any parts of the body the attack must have enough power to hurt & must land on its target. Every technique can only be effective if it has the proper timing & power to disable an attacker. The groin is the best spot to soften up an attacker to allow a woman to follow up her attack aiming on other parts of the body.

I have seen & spar with new students without MA expereince & I wear no cap, I got kick once in awhile from their wild swing & kicks but it didn`t hurt much allowing me to withstand the slight pain & counter attacking back at them. And the reason it didn`t hurst as much was becuase they didn`t have the proper kicking technique nor the right power & target sometimes it lands beside my groin or just my upper inside thighs near the groin or the kick was short didn`t have the impact. But I also got kick once in my lifetime by an expereince fighter in a tournament & to think the cap would have absorbed the kick I guess not when its a direct solid powerful kick & it really hurts. The pain will make you pause, loose your concentration for awhile & a lot of times make you bend down sometimes down on your knees. It was a good thing it happened in a control enviroment in fact we see boxers or MA tournaments were fighters get hit below the belt usually smack in the groin & their reaction is, instant pain.

[konghan]

Yes mabey for a split second they loose concentration when you hit them in the groin but in my experience, they get this really pissed/grimmicing with pain loook on their face and keep on coming. You usually dont bend down to your knees with a look of pain unless you are not 100% committed to inflicting damage. When one is commited and angry one sense of pain is dulled, so you want to go after areas the will stop them.

Going by your theory of protecting the upper body why not train girls to target the knees, and the nerves on the inside and outside of the thigh, which can drop somebody, no matter what their state of mind is.

as I have said before, there are other parts of the body that can be targetted. Man are usaully bigger & stronger than females. In a given situation the knee can be targetted the only problem is unless she has a good kick or wearing a steel toe chances are she might hurt her attacker but she might also hurt her toe because the knee area is mostly bone unlike the groin which is consist of soft muscles.

A good kick to the knee can cuase extreme pain & may or maynot stop an attacker while a good kick to the groin not only can cuase extreme pain but also affect the pyshological mind of the attacker that might result in impotency or inability to function sexually. The attacker not only will be mad & screamming in pain but also behind his mind he`ll be thinking about his sexually ability.

The sequence of action for the female in a worse case scenario against a male attacker will be, stay low, give the evil stare of death , with a LOUD KIAAA!! SCREAM quick snap of A kick aim straight to the groin, move side left or right then with a powerful kick or stump the back of the knee with the purpose of smashing the knee ball joint, BY THIS TIME THE ATTACKER WILL BE CURSING SCREAMING MAD but chances are he`ll be done in his knees holding on to his groin at the same time limping either trying to get away or trying to retaliate. Again with another loud KIAAA!!! immidiately kick aim for the temple or the eyes or the neck do it while he is down in his knees & within your height range. While all this are happening keep those arms moving parrying, defending against any in coming. All this will probably last for 5-10 maybe 15 sec. And as long as the attacker is not an expert fighter & for the female to have a good kick & sufficient training she`ll come out of this in one peice.

The bottom line is, train, train & train. Female can be more ferocious, merciless & vicious than man if they possess the right power. That is why I don`t teach or encourage my wife to learn MA , lol.

[osopardo]

Okay let me clarify what i meat, at medium range when the knee is somewhat locked, you angle yourself at 45 degrees to the knee, and then kick it with your heel. The kick is known as a front heel kick.

The above technique will destroy the opponent knee thus ending their ability to walk.

Well if you do manage to disable your opponent and you're a women, wouldnt running away be far more advisable (once he cant chase after you) than staying and fighting. My whole point is that to rely on a kick/knee to the groin is foolhardy because it isnt reliable.

You know, I was browsing through the various threads and noticed how very many posts you've made in such a relatively short time and I was thinking, "That boy is spending way too much time on this forum. He needs to get a life." But then, occassionally, you do contribute a certain amount of intelligence to the discussion.

Which is my way of saying that I totally agree with you and, in fact, was going to post a similar response (almost verbatim) regarding the front heel kick and the groin target vs knee target debate.
I will add that the groin is usually more easily protected and more dificult to hit because we all have innate flinch reactions for protecting the groin, but usually have to learn knee protection.

And BTW, I'm giving you some reputation points, buddeee!