On the mat with Jubidoo

[Uke]

There's really no such thing if you think about it. <-- basically you're saying that there is no such thing as a basic shoot or a shoot that you could use as an example to answer DJForest's question.

There are many kinds of shots and dozens of combinations of various finishes and counters and such. <--- This is just a pathetic attempt to lead one to the conclusion that because there are many shots and combinations[most of which beginner's don't learn until later] you, with all your infinite wisdom of wrestling, could not possibly answer the question as it was asked.

In other words, you're trying to pretend that the question wasn't specific enough. Talk about semantics, O Sage of Wrasslin'!

LMAOOOOOOOO

You've never shown evidence or ever described an instance when the head does NOT lead when shooting in. In order to do such a thing it would look like the vid in post#15, except the body would be moving forward instead of just vertically. You're defending a flawed explanation instead of just elaborating about what it is that you don't think people understand.

Or could it be that you just can't put it into words?

Either way you're full of shit and it shows.

All the emoticons in the world won't change that.

[jubaji]

In other words, you're telling him that the question wasn't specific enough.

It wasn't, and as I said, it isn't kotf's fault that he isn't exerienced enough to understand what I was trying to tell him, but it was his fault for refusing to learn and having a pissy attitude. YOU don't even reach that level. YOU are just being a little bitch, as usual.

[jubaji]

You've never shown evidence or ever described an instance when the head does NOT lead when shooting in. .

Go back and read what I explained to him about semantics, bitch.

[jubaji]

To "lead" means to go first to guide and direct. If you "lead" with your head, meaning you deliberately put it out ahead of your body as the first line of penetration, you are going to get snapped down into a front headlock, shucked aside, or eat a bone-crunching crossface. The idea is to keep the head, neck, and shoulders in a vertical plane as much as possible given the dynamics of the movement and the relative position/movement of your opponent. You should also keep your hips under you as much as possible as you close, which will vary according to the kind of shot as well as the other variables mentioned above. If anything is going to 'lead' it will be the hands and the lead leg. Now' if you drop a plumb line from the shooters nose at any point along the way, will it fall flat across his chest? Given human anatomy and the dynamics of the movement in relation to the opponent's movement, probably not, but that does not mean you 'lead' with your head. This is a classic case of not understanding what you are looking at. Now, we could get into knee to shoulder position, setting up the shot, dynamic movement vs ideal form (a tough concept for you role-play types) but that should be enough to give you the basic idea IF you really want to understand.

[mellow]

.. . . . . . .

[mellow]

In this first post, we will discuss the foundation of jubaji's street lethal knife disarming techniques.



It is something to behold as I have never seen any master or authority of ANY self defense system do it quite like this.



Observe:

Observe the excellent form and the way jubaji teaches to control the weapon arm no matter how much the dummy resists. And like jubaji says those dummies are p-r-e-t-t-y strong and wirey.



This is really advanced stuff people, but its just the basics of jubaji's street lethal system.



Now some of you may doubt the effectiveness of of this technique, but let me assure you that I've been assured by Jubaji that it completely works. In fact, he didn't just tell me it works, jubaji took the time out of his busy, busy schedule to share a "tale" of sorts with the forum to prove that it works against knives!



How do you like those apples, forum members?



Read it for yourself:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/urban-street-combatives-r-b-m/21076-young-mans-tale.html

It may look like high school wrestling to the untrained eye, but trust me jubaji says that the force from the impact is actually multiplied if you do it in an empty parking lot at Denny's!



Man! How did the martial arts community miss the boat on this one?



Well we have it right here at Pretend.net, ladies and gentlemen.



You get this basic technique down people, and jubaji says that knives won't even be a factor for you anymore!



More after the jump.

Look! His opponent's body is perfectly straight and stiff, just like a pencil. . . .

[kingoftheforest]

Yeah I'm not experienced enough in double speak and bullshit sifting to understand your explanation.

As for semantics, that's a big word for you

the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1) : semiotic (2) : a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
2
: general semantics
3
a : the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b : the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings



If it's the study of meaning then lets study this.

In the basic wrassler set the head is out past everything. The head is the first thing to move, even before the lead leg.

Now if it's the headless horseman wrasslin then yes his head won't lead unless he throws it at you before the shoot.

Otherwise it's going to be out in front of the body and everything else, therefore in the lead, like the guy at the front of the race, he's in the lead.

There is no need to interpret that the thing in front of everything else is leading and everything else is following.

I showed your explanation (we'll call it that for simplicities sake) to a HS wrestling coach and he got to the


"There is no basic shoot..." I can put that in quotes cause yes you did say that.

He read up to there and then asked me what 11 year old told me that and he didn't have time to waste on whatever bullshit came after it.

[jubaji]

As for semantics, that's a big word for you

Speak for yourself, moron.

[jubaji]

"There is no basic shoot..." I can put that in quotes cause yes you did say that.

No I didn't, you lying sack of shit.

[jubaji]

the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1) : semiotic (2) : a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
2
: general semantics
3
a : the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b : the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings



If it's the study of meaning then lets study this.

In the basic wrassler set the head is out past everything. The head is the first thing to move, even before the lead leg.

Now if it's the headless horseman wrasslin then yes his head won't lead unless he throws it at you before the shoot.

Otherwise it's going to be out in front of the body and everything else, therefore in the lead, like the guy at the front of the race, he's in the lead..

You go to all the trouble of learning a new word but you stil don't understand what it means. What a simpleton.

[jubaji]

I showed your explanation (we'll call it that for simplicities sake) to a HS wrestling coach

Oh really?

Did you ask this 'coach' (on the very remote chance he exists) if during a shot you should "lead" with your head, meaning you deliberately put it out ahead of your body as the first line of penetration? No, you didn't, you dishonest sack of shit.

[kingoftheforest]

I asked about just the basic shoot. Can you answer that?

There's really no such thing if you think about it. There are many kinds of shots and dozens of combinations of various finishes and counters and such.

And WTF is this?

No I didn't, you lying sack of shit.

Up till this point it was civil more so than usual, but this ends what could loosely be called a conversation. Don't take your angst out on me because you were made to look like a fool and have no other recourse than to show how crude and uneducated you really are.

Good Day.

[jubaji]

And WTF is this?



.

When you use quotations you quote a person's exact words, moron.

[jubaji]

Up till this point it was civil more so than usual, but this ends what could loosely be called a conversation. .

No one asked you to be dishonest (not to mention stubbornly ignorant despite my generous efforts).

[Uke]

To "lead" means to go first to guide and direct. If you "lead" with your head, meaning you deliberately put it out ahead of your body as the first line of penetration, you are going to get snapped down into a front headlock, shucked aside, or eat a bone-crunching crossface.

Yes, the difference between spearing and shooting. That was always understood.

The idea is to keep the head, neck, and shoulders in a vertical plane as much as possible given the dynamics of the movement and the relative position/movement of your opponent.

This is where the bullshit finds its way into your explanation. No one asked you to what degree the head leads. We only argued that it DOES in fact lead. I'm very aware of how the shoot is performed and I do understand what you're trying to say, but for the purposes of this discussion you're being deliberately vague so not to concede the point. The point being that ANY shoot or variation of a shoot is incredibly dangerous in a fight where your opponent may be armed. Regardless of how much control you're attempting to imply one would have during the shoot, you're completely wrong.

First of all, your options become limited the moment you took a knee due to lack of mobility. There are options but none that would help you to control the weapon arm. And without that control you either have knockout, disable or kill the man with the knife with the first movement ... which is simply the shoot itself.

You may argue this point by saying another option is to retreat, but lets be logical:

Who's going to move faster: The guy moving his arm to attack from a standing position or the guy moving his entire body to avoid the attacking arm from a kneeling position? That's a no brainer.

And then as if that didn't meet your quota for bullshit, you had to go even further and claim that in a situation like that you have time to decide your next move ... meaning that you won't react based on previous training, but instead you'll actually have the luxury of time to calculate, weigh and measure options while the man stands there with a knife in his hand. That in itself solidifies your position as an elite clown here at Pretend.net.

You should also keep your hips under you as much as possible as you close, which will vary according to the kind of shot as well as the other variables mentioned above. If anything is going to 'lead' it will be the hands and the lead leg. Now' if you drop a plumb line from the shooters nose at any point along the way, will it fall flat across his chest? Given human anatomy and the dynamics of the movement in relation to the opponent's movement, probably not, but that does not mean you 'lead' with your head. This is a classic case of not understanding what you are looking at.

Oh but it is YOU that has not understood the point in contention. While KOTF may have been trying to get you to admit that the head does lead(and it does to some degree) that hasn't been my point. My point has always been that it doesn't matter if your head leads during a shoot or not as long as your entire thorax cavity and head are moving defenselessly towards a weapon. All you're doing is presenting a larger target. That fact in itself qualifies all wrestling attempts to close the distance as semi-suicide attempts when facing an attacker whose intentions are completely unknown. We aren't speaking about shooting in on the drunk uncle at the family reunion. We are speaking about shooting in on a mugger in an alleyway or on a thug in a park at night time. Whether he had a blade, a brick, a gun or a bottle you'd be fucked or at least be rushing in to get fucked up.

That was ALWAYS my point.

Now, we could get into knee to shoulder position, setting up the shot, dynamic movement vs ideal form (a tough concept for you role-play types) but that should be enough to give you the basic idea IF you really want to understand.

Actually, it would be nice if you did elaborate on those techniques as it would be something brand new for you to try here at Pretend.net, but aside from that those aspects don't hold much value for me as using those concepts in SD is a moot point. Those ideas cause a man to actually lose mobility when the goal is to cause your opponent to lose mobility and balance to control him WITHOUT getting caught up in wrestling matches where strength, weight and height weigh in as huge factors as to whether or not those techniques will work. Hence the weight classes in EVERY major wrestling competition in the world.

Now let me say this:

I am NOT in any way saying that wrestling doesn't have any value. Its EXCELLENT at controlling an opponent that you are able to approach and grapple with. It fosters incredible athleticism in practitioners. Still, its approach to dealing with armed violence is nonexistent and those who simply try to "muscle" their way through armed altercations usually wind up in two places: the ICU or the morgue.

Attempting to shoot in on an armed attacker is tantamount to attempted suicide. Sure there's a chance you'll survive but do you really want to roll the dice on that one, especially when there are better ways of doing things?

I guess that's your call, but I predict that you're comfortable as the head clown at Pretend.net and you'll be hoping to keep that position for years to come.