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  • Knife

    I hope you don't mind if I post this on your forum. It's not directed at anyone in particular. It's just that I have seen a lot of misconceptions about dealing with a blade showing up in different forums and felt I should throw this out for people to consider.

    IMHO, one of the many problems that many martial artists face is learning knife techniques from instructors that don’t really understand the realities of dealing with someone with a blade. I have to admit that in previous arts that I had studied (before I got into the Filipino arts and a couple of real life situations) 98% of the knife disarms and counters that were taught were unrealistic (to be nice) to say the least. Even deadly if you happen to be facing someone who really knows how to use a blade.

    Example:

    I recently met a person who has been an instructor for 20+ years in an art that you would all be very familiar with (I will not name the art or the person). He is very good at what he does hand to hand. He had developed his own set of knife disarms and counters that he taught to his students. About 8-9 years ago one of his better students was killed in a knife fight in a bar. He felt somehow responsible for his students death (whether he was or not …?) and quit teaching his blade techniques. About 4 years ago he totally revised his techniques (he felt for the better) and started teaching the blade again. About two years ago, one of my former training partners started working in the same company where this instructor works. They started sparring regularly on their lunch breaks and comparing notes. Guess what? When they started doing blade work, most of his techniques failed, taking kill shots or nasty slashes to vital points on his way in. One of the differences was that he was used to practicing the old --- person one thrusts or slashes and freezes. Person two works his technique. Once he tried in a flowing manner where the opponent isn’t going to freeze for you but instead is going to flow and try to take you out… a whole new world was opened up to him.
    The point of my rambling here is that it took a lot for this guy to realize how dangerous dealing with a blade wielding person can be. Even after the death of a student, he still didn’t quite get it. I only bring this up because it troubles me to see some of this kind of mentality showing up here. It’s just that television and movies always portray knife fighting in an unrealistic manner, which many people see and believe to be true. There are also (IMHO) a lot of instructors out there who teach blade work who really have no business doing so. In essence they are teaching students how to kill themselves.
    Take time to really look at and question any blade technique you have been taught (or came up with yourself). Work it in real time with someone who is of equal or greater abilities than your self and objectively evaluate how effective it really is. Consider a slash or a stab a kill shot and try again. Try it squaring off. Try it with your partner in your face as if he is coming up to ask you for a cigarette and suddenly whips out a blade and tries to stab you when you are toe to toe.

    Consider the following:
    A sharp knife will cut through the skin as easily as it will through a hot dog. Many arteries and tendons are just below the skin. If a major artery is cut, you could bleed to death (suffocate) in a matter of seconds. If a tendon is cut, that limb/appendage is rendered useless. And in a REAL KNIFE FIGHT, the winner is the last person to die.

    Food for thought.

    William

  • #2
    This is exactly why we spar our knife defense in various situations. First technique: Run. Second, throw something at the guy so you can run. Third, use something as a weapon until you can run. Fourth, emptyhand until you can run. We train emptyhand against the knife so that if you must protect someone and can't run, you at least have a better chance than with no training. Aloha.

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    • #3
      Hi Burton.
      I saw a video for Antonio Ilustrisimo on your website.
      Is it ready yet because I would like to purchase it. Also, I would like to ask you hown many minutes does Tatang appear in the video, and is their any interview? techniques?

      Please reply at your convenience. Thank you

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      • #4
        I am still working on the editing. Tatang will be in there quite a bit. I may include some footage of him speaking, but many people have a hard time understanding this section. I am sure that you will enjoy the tapes. I estimate that they will be ready in October.

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        • #5
          I absolutely agree.

          William

          BTW, JD says Hi.

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          • #6
            Please give JD my best. I haven't seen him for some time.

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            • #7
              >>Please give JD my best. I haven't seen him for some time.>>


              Will do. Actually, I'm heading out to his house in a litte bit for some Sunday training.


              William

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              • #8
                i agree

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                • #9
                  Q: What do you do against a guy with a knife?

                  Sayoc Kali Answer: We are the guys with the knives.

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                  • #10
                    I understand your response Cocoy, but personally, I don't want to live like that. If you live in a war-zone (I did for many years) then do what you have to do (as I did). Much better to pack up and move out of the war zone. Life is so much more rewarding. Aloha!

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                    • #11
                      Sorry I was a little flippant with my answer but my point was only to think active, be the feeder. Take initiative instead of thinking defensively.

                      By the way, Merry Christmas.

                      -C
                      Last edited by cocoy; 12-24-2002, 03:06 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Q: What do you do against a guy with a knife?

                        Sayoc Kali Answer: We are the guys with the knives.

                        Gee, I guess that makes me a Sayoc Kali player cause I have a knife too? .............No? Just kidding. A flippant answer for a flippant remark. Point taken.

                        Sorry I was a little flippant with my answer but my point was only to think active, be the feeder. Take initiative instead of thinking defensively.

                        I prefer to think counter-offensively. I tend to walk around in yellow alert mode in public areas (and my own home after I've been gone for a while). Experiences in my life have led me to operate in this manner. I don't walk around thinking someone might jump out of every dark corner, it's second nature now and I don't stress over it. If you were walking with me and didn't know me real well you wouldn't even know I was doing it. I can carry on a conversation with you while I check out who and what is around me or coming up as we move about. I make mental notes about possible ambush areas, people or places that would put me at a disadvantage in a confrontation. In some situations one of my weapons will already be deployed ( as a precaution ). One example: as I exit my car (our art studio was in a very industrial part of town with many homeless, train hoppers and druggies around) when arriving to work at 5:30 a.m. A number of times I have had people hop out from behind train cars or dumpsters hitting me up for money or chattering nonsensically (BTW, I've seen many of these people down here with a wide array of weapons that run the gamut, from metal pipes to box cutters). I give these areas a wide berth and my blade is already deployed as I approach. I haven't been attacked down here yet, but I am ready to go at all times. People who don't train weapons all that much always chirp in that you won't have time to get your weapon out. In many situations, that is true. But, guess what, chances are...mine is already out & ready to go.
                        Once I get into the studio and scan the area, I forget about and go to work. Once I lock up at the end of the day and walk out, I'm back into yellow alert mode until I get home. As I said earlier, I don't stress it, it's just what I do - second nature.

                        William
                        Last edited by William; 12-25-2002, 02:38 PM.

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                        • #13
                          You're an artist? I am a production artist and illustrator, I designed the costumes for planet of the apes and I currently work as a concept artist at Blizzard entertainment, a videogame company.

                          -C

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                          • #14
                            That's cool, I recall some great design work from that movie.

                            Personally I do a lot of mixed media stuff. Graphite, pen & ink, airbrush, acrylics etc. Professionally I create Architectural signage, Corporate ID's, environmental graphics, custom awards, and fine art in etched and carved glass. Not the surface stuff you see from acid etching or light sand blasting, I do deep etching and multi-layer carving. Pieces 2"x2" up to 8'x10' panels. I also use colorfilling, metal flake, gold/silver leaf, screen printing and sometimes airbrush techniques in conjunction with the carving/etching. I can also do mirror, crystal, stone, wood, and some composite materials as well. Since it's a photo based process, I can get incredible detail, even taking an image from a photograph and etching it into glass. Any way, most people don't realize how much can be done with a material like glass. The corporate stuff can be some what boring, but I have artists come to me with designs and I do my own as well so every day is something different...which keeps things interesting. And, I have a 6ft heavy bag and a wooden dummy in my studio (just trying to keep it MA related ).

                            BTW, Burton, I'm not trying to plug the business here, just describe what I do. Most people don't get it if I just say "glass etching" (though C probably would - being a fellow artist and all).

                            William

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                            • #15
                              how it happens on the street

                              you can try practiceing with one arm tied behind your back, or in a squating position, sitting position, duck walk position. you can try no arms . try from the point when the knife touches your body. Have the person attack you from behind. Add more then one attacker. Add a kick or punch before the knife is used.

                              you could also get a couple friends to tie ropes to your arms and legs, and at random pull the ropes rendering the arm/leg useless in the middle of the knife exersice.

                              try it blindfolded even!

                              theres no real need for this post, just some ideas for training...

                              thanks for your time.

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