Mixed Martial Bullshitters

[SOUTHPAW]

S.Anucha: I in no way meant that as a dig...just an observation. you seem like you have a good deal of humility AND dedication. Keep training hard and you will have a good career. This game has it's ups and downs for sure (my story reads like a Greek tradgedy) but if you stay focused and keep it real you can go far. Sincerely..good luck bro'.

[kid_chocolate]

re:

Yeah, no offense meant.

Just responding to an ignorant post by a muay thai fan. Check out the anti-logic! He contradicts himself constantly.

[S.Anucha]

kid_chocolate, are you trying to be clever by chopping up and then rearranging my words then taking advantage of my poor English grammar skills to say that i am contradicting myself? I have never once said I am a Muay Thai master so wtf are you talking about?

How do I contradict myself in this comment?

"Face the facts, UFC has only proven one thing and that is, to fight in UFC it would be a good idea to really concentrate on Muay Thai skills and mix it with a little ground work so as to get it back to where you'll get a knockout, on your feet"

Maybe I was trying to say that the majority of UFC fighters are not really hot on the old stand up fighting thing They should really train a little harder on that side of the fight then it would probably become interesting.


then I said :

"UFC is boring, its like watching paint dry, two men going for a submission is probably the most channel changing sport I can possibly imagine, similar to golf, when they do actually strike each other the techniques and skill is 50% to say the least. So to compare UFC with reality is the dumbest thing you could do, its dumb to compare any ring sport with reality...."


so how the hell did you get this :


"But then:
UFC is boring, its like watching paint dry, or Muay Thai.... to say the least.... "

and then I said this :

"......if you want to learn street self defence I would recommend not to learn any mystical art that has some death touch technique but simply join a Muay Thai gym, an authentic Muay Thai gym, Muay Thai is the first thing I would learn for street self defense, THE FIRST and foremost, why? well because its the easiest to learn and the most practical, straight forward no shit, mix that with the type of person you are and you will either have a shit fighter who knows Muay Thai or one crazy mofo who knows Muay Thai."

and you said this :

"The best anti-logic of all:
its dumb to compare any ringsport with reality....if you want to learn real street self defence I would recommend....simply join a Muay Thai gym. The ringsport of Muay Thai is the first thing I would learn for street self defense, THE FIRST and foremost, why? well because its the easiest ringsport to learn, mix that with the type of person you are and you will....have a ringsport for the streets."



the question now is, why?

I would imagine that you are trying to say that MuayThai is a ringsport and I also said its dumb to compare any ringsport with reality, hmm...., so then I said fo rreality its best to learn Muayt thai but sure thats dumb cos a ringsport is nothing like reality in th efirst place, yeah? You definately are trying to be funny, its becoming clear now, ringsports are not reality because there are referees mate and rules and also doctors close by, a corner willing to throw a towel in to stop the fight if it gets to dangerous etc.... outside a ring there are no refs no rules etc ect so Muay Thai is just as effective inside or outside the ring, wheres the contradiction.

Mate you done a nice job of choppin my words and creating different meanins to my sentences. Why?

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by S.Anucha




mate take away the rules and gloves in any ring sport and you'll have a real fight!




....and Muay Thai is the most practical in the sense it doesnt take a fucking rocket scientist to learn how to throw a punch or elbow does it.

I havnt lost a fight yet because of lack of ground grappling knowledge, not yet! And i have found myself on the ground many a times only to get back up.

I disagree.There is a difference between taking away rules and gloves from muay thai to have a real fight and taking away rules and gloves from other arts like karate,kung fu,tae kwon do etc.

The difference is taking away gloves and rules from stuff like karate only makes it a little more aggressive but still an art where as taking away gloves and rules from Muay Thai basically makes it a real fight,why?

Simply because karate doesn't teach much useful stuff for self-defense it's more forms.To think a karate person would win a real fight on street against Muay Thai is plain silly since they are used to doing mostly forms and point sparring as we are used to doing full contact.We muay thai fighters have been taught more options then karate people.

With or without gloves we are used to punching full out and going straight through with our punches instead of pulling back and snapping our punches or kicks.

Karate,kung fu,tae kwon do aren't ring sports.

UFC and Muay Thai are ring sports that is why they are the closest to a real fight.Ufc is closest to a real fight mostly because of its different fighting positions.Obviously against a gun it won't do any good but then again no art will do good against a gun.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Oh how difficult it is to make a difference between fighting under a set of rules and then to diss them

Somehow Karateka won't be able to punch deeper into the target or just include headpuches but MT people all of a sudden are able to attack targets that are illegal in a match

Not all Karatestyles are focussing on forms, we actually spend less time on forms than on warmingup/conditioning, we used kickingshields and in the dojo allowed for any controlled technique ( poking someones eyes isn't controlled) as well as going to the ground
So only point you have is the full contact training, but that didn't limit me in a real fight, I do not fight instinctively. so do not fall back in stopping my punch like in the dojo

Guys like Sem Schilt, didn't have to learn any new standup skills, only groundfighting, they did not have to learn MT to be able to do good at standup in MMA events

I would say their Karate is just as good as MT

[kid_chocolate]

yawn

Mate you done a nice job of choppin my words and creating different meanins to my sentences. Why?

Because you're an idiot. I just embellished what you said yourself. Your first post is so full of angry contradictions that I almost fell of my chair laughing when I first read it.

you are trying to say that MuayThai is a ringsport and I also said its dumb to compare any ringsport with reality, hmm...., so then I said fo rreality its best to learn Muayt thai..... wheres the contradiction.

Exactly sketch, you are an idiot. You can't have it both ways. Basically you like Muay Thai. Thats fine. Get over it.

Here's a quick summary of your crazy mind at work, incase you have forgotten:
UFC is boring and the skill level is low. It has nothing to do with reality because its a ring sport. However Muay Thai is the ultimate art for UFC, even though UFC is really bad and the striking is terrible. Ever occur to you that Muay Thai might also be skillless and useless for reality since its such a big part of the UFC that you hate so much? How can muay thai dominate something you find so worthless, yet still take kudos from that? Being on top of a pile of crap does not make you good.

Then you go on to say:
Muay Thai is the ultimate art for use on the streets or anywhere else (its a ringsport too but who cares?). You feel that the ringsport of Muay Thai is intrinsically better than the ringsport of MMA for any purpose, even though pure thai loses to MMA in a 1 on 1 fight every time. Muay Thai also happens to be better than all trad arts and all reality based arts for any purpose. The piss-poor grappling of muay thai is better than the real grappling of a real grappler. The sun shines out of muay thai's ass.

Basically you just like Muay Thai. Good for you skippy, but its not a coherent argument and makes you look really stupid. Mate.

[S.Anucha]

Re: yawn

Originally posted by kid_chocolate

Exactly sketch, you are an idiot. You can't have it both ways. Basically you like Muay Thai. Thats fine. Get over it.

Hold on here mate, who are you? whats your problem, you have 8 fucking posts and you seem to be fully clued on with the old fighting game, who are you?

Originally posted by kid_chocolate

Here's a quick summary of your crazy mind at work, incase you have forgotten:
UFC is boring and the skill level is low. It has nothing to do with reality because its a ring sport. However Muay Thai is the ultimate art for UFC, even though UFC is really bad and the striking is terrible. Ever occur to you that Muay Thai might also be skillless and useless for reality since its such a big part of the UFC that you hate so much? How can muay thai dominate something you find so worthless, yet still take kudos from that? Being on top of a pile of crap does not make you good..

I said UFC is boring to watch, ok? ok now that out of the way wheres the contradiction? tell me where is the contradiction? The skill level of the striking and the overall STANDARD of fighting in UFC is not as high as would be in a Muay Thai stadium fight in Thailand or Holland for that matter, that is a fact wether you like it or not.

I said and will always say UFC and any ring sport is not to be compared with reality as it is not that! I didnt say Muay Thai is the ultimate art for UFC, where'd ya get that from?

I said it would be a good idea to train more in Muay Thai particularly because the striking skill from the majority of fighters aint the best in UFC and less in ground work then maybe, just fucking maybe UFC will become interesting to watch. (for me at least)

Mate, Muay Thai is not in UFC, sorry to say this but what you see in UFC are kickboxers with few Muay Thai skills, hey credit must be given to the kick, knee and elbow technqiues they use. Have you ever fought a Muay Thai fighter? not a kickboxer but a Muay Thai fighter?

Mate you are doing it again even when I have explained my meaning behind what i posted you still take segmants of my posts change it around to create the contradicitons, why are you doing that?

Originally posted by kid_chocolate

Then you go on to say:
Muay Thai is the ultimate art for use on the streets or anywhere else (its a ringsport too but who cares?). You feel that the ringsport of Muay Thai is intrinsically better than the ringsport of MMA for any purpose, even though pure thai loses to MMA in a 1 on 1 fight every time. Muay Thai also happens to be better than all trad arts and all reality based arts for any purpose. The piss-poor grappling of muay thai is better than the real grappling of a real grappler. The sun shines out of muay thai's ass.

Basically you just like Muay Thai. Good for you skippy, but its not a coherent argument and makes you look really stupid. Mate.

Muay Thai is the most practical, wether you like it or not, for street self defense.

I feel that there is way more skill involved, more experience and the standard of fighters in Muay Thai, not K-1 and not kickboxing but professional Muay thai, is a lot higher than that in UFC.

Eh? Pure Thai? where'd ya get that from? hang on here what age are you? I dont think there has been any pure Muay Thai fighters fighting in UFC yet. honestly I think kickboxers yes but pure Muay Thai fighters....erm, NO! Why would they want to fight in UFC when they have Thailand to compete at?


Ok piss poor grappling, haha, again have you ever fought a Muay Thai fighter or have you ever trained in Muay Thai? I have not been dumped in my class by a grappler. Thats the truth, out of all the guys there are 2 who fight MMA, one had a fight last sunday and he won, and train ground work but in our sparring class during clinch they havnt dominated me standing, why is that? well maybe it has something to do with the standard of Muay thai grappling not being as shit as you think it is.

Mate, go ahead and try to chop again because time and time again you will read the same explanations to my shoddy written english? I am so fucking sorry for not having the great skills in the english language that you may posses, I bow down to you and fully appologise. I would imagine I will be still fighting when you have taken up your professional role as a lawyer or some shit.

creating flame wars is getting boring mate.

now out of all that and without choppin words go back to my original post and with the explanations I have given re read and tell me where are the contradicitons?

Khun Khao please help me with some technical details of the standard of fighting in Muay Thai and the standard of grappling.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10049

****you know maybe I should read carefully before I post something an dthne correct the grammar mistakes****

[kid_chocolate]

re: numpty

I said and will always say UFC and any ring sport is not to be compared with reality as it is not that!

and then...

Muay Thai is the most practical, wether you like it or not, for street self defense.

Ring sport, ring sport.....Hmmm muay thai is a ring sport isn't it? Oh but I forgot, its special. Your little brain has been filled with muay thai rubbish. You'll get over it some day mate.

some more choice quotes from your first couple of posts:

I am not knocking the effectivness of ground grappling

riiiight....

I am directing this to the Mixed Martial Artists, you guys seem to bethe most mislead bunch of idiots ever to surf the internet!

uh huh...thats more like the real you...

UFC guys are born fighters

Mate, I thought MMA was useless and all the fighters had no skills? Make up your mind. You're an idiot.

Did you get taken down and dominated by a pissed-up student in a bar mate? Did you scream like a scrawny little bitch when he made you tap out? Maybe you really liked his sweaty crotch in your face but are scared to admit it? Mate, I don't know but you need help...Go and play your rule filled little stand-up grappling game and keep telling yourself that its real.

Mate, ever seen muay thai vs Cung Lee (san shou)? Thats what happens when one of you fantasy boys gets in a standup clinch with someone who knows how to throw. Its worse vs a good wrestler, I've seen it mate.

The ringsport of muay thai is filled with rules to prevent this happening of course. Its about as real as your fight record mate.

[S.Anucha]

What!!! you are still going for it....

What has my fight record got to do with anything? real? haha, ok it aint real i made the whole thing up... like all 3 of my fights, whoopee fucking doo, if I was to lie wouldnt I at least make myself out to be a fucking champion! Sure if I am lying then why should you worry about it? are you jealous of my 2 KO's and 1 draw record? would you like me to stick some photos of one of my fights including the KO?


UFC fighters mate, FIGHTERS not some fucking student types who just dabble in.... ach forget I couldnt be bothered


...my grievence was with Mixed Martial Artists who claim that their style of fighting is reality and that UFC is street fighting.That is why I stated that Mixed Martial Artists must be the most mislead bunch of idiots around (of course we all know now that not all of them) of course that was fueld by anger after reading about 45 minutes worth of crap about it than posting this thread.

[HuSanYan]

well me lovely bros on the boards, I have to say that upon reading this truly God awful thread, i truly adore this site, god bless all at Defend.Net, these are undoubtedly the single most entertaining boards on the net.
some of the other forums are way too strict& petty and i for one would like to praise the mods and owners/admin for allowing so much
1) Bitching
2) the occasional bit of swearing without those stupid 'deleting asterisks'
3) plenty of humour and sarcasm
4) all sorts of outright freakery


Defend.Net truly rules the roost!!

HuSanYan Has Spoken

[HuSanYan]

sorry, forgot to say

S Anucha, i think you are getting a bit over emotional m8.
So whats the big deal if you get the occasional young folk having a bit of a dig?. You are VERY defensive re MT and this reveals a thing or 2 needless to mention.

Sure MT is great for toughening and conditioning but its also very unhealthy for the bones and nerves etc.

It is a sport as you know, a great one and one that i am a big fan of, but you have mentioned that you were/are in the Military, I believe in N Ireland?, please correct me if I am wrong, I remember this from another thread.

anyway, as you know or as I mentioned before in that other thread, I gave 9 years of my youth to the RM (UK), I, needless to say have been out to the Gulf several times including many other places for varying durations, African countries, Eastern Europe & several other places anyway, my point, you dont need to lecture about "real fucking combat" to some of us on these boards and it is so fucking ugly IRL especially when a very tough character can occasionally lose a bit of bowel control briefly when in the VERY ugly situation of shells, grenades & gasses going past your person by inches, do I need elaborate???!

now heres some reality for you m8, when in the real deal you aint going to want to engage an enemy by freaking striking him with your damn knees! especially when he might be 100 lbs heavier than you, so MT is ONLY suited for the ring or indeed against some drunken untrained civilian punk in a bar.

Heres a little bit of truth for you which no doubt you won't like,

A good JuJutsuka would disable a good MT fighter very quickly in real life, without doubt and without hesitation, assuming both unarmed or even with both armed (not guns).

finally, why would you get so upset by a newbie on a forum having a bit of a pop at yer??
do I need to repeat for the millionth time on these forums that at the end of the day its down to the very heart of each person and NOT his style, eg. a real good slow motion Tai Chi freak could win over a really badly co-ordinated MT guy, BJJ guy or whatever.(a slighty extreme example but one never the less)

I have trained in various styles and for each and every one of them I have seen people who have trained for years with very good TECHNICAL ability that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag when the adrenaline dump occurs.

your quote to 'Kid choco'

"Hold on here mate, who are you? whats your problem, you have 8 fucking posts and you seem to be fully clued on with the old fighting game, who are you?""

8 posts, this is an internet forum with many people being genuinely FAKE characters, what on earth does his post count have to do with actual fighting or fighting knowledge?????????

HuSanYan Has Spoken

[S.Anucha]

I try to explain, really i do, its only an internet forum but dont you ever get annoyed at such crap you read only to find your self posting angry threads?

no no! 8 posts (nothing to so with being clued on, he just has 8 posts, meaning he hasnt been here very long either) AND he seems to be fully clued on, not meaning that because he has 8 posts he must not be clued on.... damn man doesnt my words make sense to anyone???

My father was Para, I lived with them wherever etc etc, he served in Falklands and here etc.... I tried to join Para's but got into a spot of trouble with the RUC during selection and was put on probation by the army only to find myself in France for some reason which I wont go into cos its long and boring. I respect the the Royal Marine regiment, as for one reason they know their shit, they are one of if not the best, along with Para, regiments in the british armed forces. The Para's and RM's in my area are well ok.

I know very well what trouble is like, I have experienced myself a couple of scary moments being caught up in stand still in N.Ireland in the early 90's, that was pretty scary as we all thought it was going to escelate to all out war, that and many other times with shows of strength turning inot gun battles. You know the shit and yes you're right no martial art will ever help ya when someone has a crossbow or a gun!

But you are right mate Muay Thai is a sport but Muay Thai is only part of krabi-Krabong, do you know this? Honestly have a read about it, The dog brothers... check them out for Krabi-Krabong, also Lerdrit, Miltary Muay Thai. The Thai police and the Thai military still use these today, 8 weapons for Krabi-Krabong, very nasty art, swords and knives are still useful in todays combat...

HuSanYan, I dont mean to disrespect you but I would see a trained Krabi artist make mince meat of most men who have no guns. And Lerdrit is like JuJitsu but its Muay Thai with ground grapple, mate tell me if you want more information as I can get you it. if you're intersted that is. I am also hopeing to train in Krabi-krabong if I can blagg my way into Buddhai Sawan Institue in Thailand when I am there.

JuJutsuka may beat a small light Muay Thai fighter in real life because of weight and height disadvantage, Thais are small and finding a heavy weight is hard.... I am not just saying this shit for sheer argument, I dont know what experience you have in Muay Thai, the experience I have had with grappling different styles is only with the MMA fighters that come to our Muay Thai gym to train Muay Thai and on occasions we grapple with them, standing only and I am not making this up, I am 69-72 kilo, 178cm tall, one of the guys is 85kilo and he could not throw me! neither of them could, but I do have more experience than they, I am using Muay Thai stand up grapple. It was the same in Thailand, a guy travelling to Japan to fight in some tournement was at our camp, he was also pretty big and strong, I wouldnt say he was massive but he was bigger, like weight lifting big, he also had a hard time grappling with Thais and the other guys who were there training, grapple sparring is done hard and with no strikes, we can also throw in sparring. Mate I am not making this up.... damn if only a few of the fellas I know actualy knew how to turn a computer on.

A lot of UFC fans think they are watching Muay Thai fighters fighting in UFC, mate they really are not and until you have actually trained real Muay Thai, not kickboxing with Muay Thai technqiues as there are big big differences, you wont really appreciate it.... I actually do have high respect for these guys who come to our gym as their attitude is nothing like the attitude of many of the mixed martial artists who post on forums, nothing like it and these guys fight! They know the weakness of whatever grapple art it is they train in and they are well aware of the strengths of muay Thai.

Thai grapple, standing grapple is actually quite good, if you have a crap teacher or some kickboxer then obviously you aint gonna learn it.

HuSanYan, I wont sit back and let any man slagg off Muay Thai when its clearly kickboxing with Muay Thai techniques thrown in, so then it must be Muay Thai to eveyone as the commentator or whatever has said its Muay Thai! know what i mean, I know what real muay Thai looks like and I know the style of Muay thai when watching it, damn man I seen it everyday for ages and in literaly 100's of different fighters. wether I like it or not doesnt matter but one thing remains, Muay Thai is a very effective art and a good grappler not trained in any striking will have a tough time fighting with a good Muay Thai fighter.

this site is full of great information, mate read it, it will help you understand Muay Thai and the art from where it came. It is also credible.

http://www.usmta.com/Krabi-Krabong-2.htm

Krabi-Krabong cannot be compared to a sport, it aint a sport and people would die if you were to use a lot of the technqiues in a fight, Muay Thai (old style) was taken from Krabi-krabong so they could at some extent practice the unarmed techniques of Krabi-Krabong without killing each other, it was eventually turned into the ring sport of Muay Thai (which is only a hand full of unarmed krabi-krabong techniques) you see today.

I may have bad english skills but I aint no dummy when it comes to finding an all round fighting system, I would have dropped Muay Thai if I were to think that it was not one of the most practical forms of self defense. really I would. I aint calling you stupid so dont think that, but what is your picture of Muay Thai? what gave you the impession it is what you say it is?

I think the majority of Mixed Martial Artists dont really understand Muay Thai, they may learn some striking technqiues form it but as far as understanding and learning I really dont think they know.

If Muay Thai fighters got beat then thats good, if they get beat by sanshou then good for sanshou, but isnt sanshou mighty similar to Muay Thai? But mate how can someone watch a UFC fighter with the label "Muay Thai" fighter who clearly isnt a Muay Thai fighter still believe that its a Muay Thai fighter they are watching?

if you ever feel like you are interested in learning Muay Thai, real Muay Thai and Krabi-Krabong I really recommend that you go to Thailand or find a credible gym in your area one that doesnt use the name and teach some technqiues but one that teaches the style and everything else with it. The times I heard while in Thailand from the teachers.... "that isnt Muay Thai thats kickboxing" was unbeliveable, its shocking at how many kickboxing gyms are now teaching under the name Muay Thai, funny enough Kickboxers now kick like the Thais. K-1 fighters use Muay Thai strike techniques but as for the K-1 Muay Thai fighters being who they actually claim to be I only wonder. the Dutch are fantastic for the heavier weights but mate my trainer/s from Thailand, 3 of them all ex champions of Bangkok stadiums with the boss being 4 times, told me Ramon Dekker and Rab Kamon are kickboxers but good kickboxers! strange. Good Muay Thai fighters are awsome to watch, really, if you have the time we could get on msn and I could send you a few fights from Lupinee, if anything you will see the skill and experience difference, but i know you will watch and definatley see real Muay Thai, these guys are a different class of fighter in my opinion.

If you want to get msn and add

darran_thai_boxing@hotmail.com and I will upload to you.

theres a great fight with a foreigner who gets dumped twice second time knocks him out. There are 2 occasions of stretcher KO's by elbow and round house to the head..... mate I really think you'll love these fights! get on msn!

[kid_chocolate]

re

...my grievence was with Mixed Martial Artists who claim that their style of fighting is reality and that UFC is street fighting.

I agree. They are as irritating as those brainwashed muay thai guys who think their sport style is reality. Muay thai, like judo, is a modern sport style derived from an older combat oriented style. Everyone should train a full contact sport style sometime in their life, but they should remember what it is and not believe the hype. You are at an early stage in your training and are too angry to see this. At least you have aspirations to widen your training. Try thinking a bit before you open your mouth about muay thai because its obviously a very emotional subject for you.

[HuSanYan]

Originally posted by S.Anucha
I try to explain, really i do, I actually do have high respect for guys who come to our gym as their attitude is nothing like the attitude of many of the mixed martial artists who post on forums, nothing like it.

I will take this matter up personally with my people, the Mysterons

[shadowkiller]

I agree quite alot with what you are saying S. But in some conditions the UFC has some ok stand up fighters. But with the ground game I completly agree with you. But then again IFC is pretty much pro wrestling nowadays and its just fun to watch. Not as fun as say K-1 or something but still interesting nonetheless.