Abortion, should it be illegal?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

What are your guy's views on abortion? No it's not for a school project . I just want to know how you guys feel aout it and why. It would be great if we also had some females speak their minds as well. I'd like to hear both sides of the argument and how each gender views it.

[Hikage]

This is going to get ugly.


-Hikage

[KopyKat]

Ok well id say it depends on the age, like if you get a girl pregnant at a younger age i think it would be smart to get the abortion for even financial reasons. The child probably wouldn't get the attention it needs which might even effect the childs later habits and attitute, and it will make the life of the "parents" at a young age very challenging especially if they don't have the right help to do it. But that should be more or less avoided if the right steps are taken of course, All in all for those reasons id say it would have to be legal.

[IPON]

BJJ Are you planning to have one, MR MOM

[Mulan]

I believe such decisions should be made either by the woman or by both partners (as appliccable) based on the quality of life the child would have and how well they feel they would be able to take care of it. I believe every child deserves to be born into a loving home where its mother and/or father are/is ready to take on the responsibility of being a parent. Too many unwanted children are being born who are abused, grow up in foster homes, or become criminals. It is bad enough to ruin the child's life by bringing it into a world that doesn't want it, but it would also potentially ruin the lives of people who were not ready to become parents at the time, but might have made great parents in the future. A kid should not be seen as punishment for unsafe sex (whether with a consenting partner or through rape), and neither does a kid deserve to be punished for its parents' unsafe sex. I don't want to get into the trimester debate, but abortion should only be a last resort, and done as early in the development of an embryo as possible. Prefferably with a "morning after" pill in the first place.

[IPON]

I think its okay under certain circumstances but too often its just because the woman is emotionally unstable and doesnt know what the hell she wants.

H2H are you able to not be so ignorant, I know you are only 16y/o but damn. I really don't want to start writing about this inflammatory subject but remember it takes two to tango, these emotionally unstable women as you call them are only half the equation my friend. Please think before you write.

[osopardo]

Kopykat, Mulan, et al.;

In other words, have the abortion if having a child is inconvenient or not in your current lifestyle plans or if there is the remotest possibility that the child might have a less than perfect life?

Well, would it then not be appropriate to pass a law requiring all persons below a certain age and income level to undergo a vasectomy or tubal ligation? These people are more than likely the one's who will have an unwanted pregnacy and we should do whatever we can to prevent it.

"You want an abortion? By all means! Just come in with the father of the child and we'll provide a safe, legal abortion, free of charge, along with a tubal ligation for you and a vasectomy for him!"

You say that doesn't seem reasonable? You say it infringes on your civil rights? Well, doesn't the thought of killing a human life because of the way things might turn out in the future seem just a tad unreasonable?

I have had the privilige of knowing several men who would have been aborted following your guidelines. Two of them grew up in orphanages, another grew up in a foster home, yet another had a mother who had been an alcoholic, etc. There's really nothing special about these people. They're just ordinary everyday types. Today, one is a pastor at a local church, one owns an insurance agency, another is an architect, the list goes on. They have spouses, children, friends, etc. None of them turned out to be Einsteins or Ghandis or anything that would have changed history. But how dare anyone (including their mothers) decide their lives were not worth living?

Let me leave you with one final example; a black illegitimate kid being raised by his grandmother because his mother was a drug addict who had abandoned him at an early age. When grandma dies he is left with no other choice but to go live with his druggie mother and her husband. One evening during an arguement, the mother threatens the boy with a kitchen knife.
He runs away from home and goes to live in the New York subways.
She should just had him aborted in the first place, right?

Please read the rest of the story...

http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/24/homeless.scholar/

[Mulan]

In other words, have the abortion if having a child is inconvenient or not in your current lifestyle plans or if there is the remotest possibility that the child might have a less than perfect life?

Well, I can't speak for Kopykat, but if you read my statement again, I said abortion should only be considered as a last resort. You also completely exaggerated my standards for quality of life - for both the child and the parents. I fully stand by what I said, and said it to contribute my opinion, but I have no interest in taking part in either a secular or religious abortion flame war. I do not think I will ever be faced with the choice of abortion, and even if I ever desire to have kids, I will probably adopt one.

[Mulan]

No Mulan you said that the quality of life of the child would be probally be poor and therefore they do not deserve living. Basically you have the right to decide that even though somebody has done nothing wrong that they dont have the right to experience life because their life may suck. Oso nailed you on that, and you are avoiding that basically the above is one of the things you were saying.

The only times I mentioned the word "deserve" in my statement is in "I believe every child deserves to be born into a loving home where its mother and/or father are/is ready to take on the responsibility of being a parent" and "A kid should not be seen as punishment for unsafe sex, and neither does a kid deserve to be punished for its parents' unsafe sex." I never said a kid doesn't deserve to live or even that they should be aborted.

I think what you brought up is a fundamental bias in so-called "pro-lifers" when interpreting things said by "pro-choice" people. Nobody is telling anybody that they should kill unwanted babies. Abortion is almost never an easy choice to make for those that decide upon it, and it is the very last thing they turn to. I just acknowlege that there are cases where the choice is justified, not least of them being rape, because I feel the amount of total suffering it would cause to multiple people outweighs the benefits to any single person. If you disagree with me, then choose not to have an abortion... no pro-choicers will bomb your house if you decide that.

I also understand that pro-lifers approach the debate from a different perspective. They see the unborn child as somebody who can potentially become an adult human being with all the rights an adult human being has, and therefore to kill a foetus is a violation of its rights. I disagree with that, and do not treat somebody as an autonomous, adult human until they actually become that. It is the reasoning behind why you don't sentence a 5-year-old to life in prison and/or the death penalty if they kill somebody. I do not ascribe rights to a being until they are either outside the womb or exhibit signs of conscious life - which happens at the 2nd or 3rd trimesters.

I honestly don't have a strong opinion on abortion. That's why my intentions were to present my opinion and let those that are passionate about the issue discuss it amongst themselves. I'm sure there are issues I'm passionate about that you probably wouldn't care about. That's just how it is. *shrug*

[gregimotis]

They see the unborn child as somebody who can potentially become an adult human being with all the rights an adult human being has, and therefore to kill a foetus is a violation of its rights. I disagree with that, and do not treat somebody as an autonomous, adult human until they actually become that.

How do people feel about the current legal fight in th US Re: Charging people who assault pregnant women with two crimes, assault of the woman and assault of the fetus? Row vs. Wade is predicated on the idea that a fetus is not alive and therefore has no legal rights.

[KopyKat]

I agree with Mulan, i think its a last resort thing if it accidentally happens and you really can't take care of the kid and know you will make its life worse quality than it could be if you waited. This is strictly the smarter thing to do when too young to support a child, but its my opinion. Others may differ and cause themselves grief...

[TNT]

I think its okay under certain circumstances but too often its just because the woman is emotionally unstable and doesnt know what the hell she wants.

...to say nothing of the mobile sperm bank involved (excuse me gentlemen)did you think about that?.......Hand2Hand ..come on!!!!You're too young to be such a misogynist and you should really examine why...although I can only imagine........

[eXcessiveForce]

watch the movie, the silent scream.

It is about a man who was aborted himself. A woman found him in a dumpster and was able to keep him alive and ended up treating him as he were her own son.

It also shows the babies trying to get away from the solution during the abortion process.

I think there should at least be a three day waiting period. have the kid and then if it's not for you drown the little bastard.

[osopardo]

The only times I mentioned the word "deserve" in my statement is in "I believe every child deserves to be born into a loving home where its mother and/or father are/is ready to take on the responsibility of being a parent" and "A kid should not be seen as punishment for unsafe sex, and neither does a kid deserve to be punished for its parents' unsafe sex." I never said a kid doesn't deserve to live or even that they should be aborted.

I also believe everybody child "deserves to be born into a loving home where its mother and/or father are/is ready to take on the responsibility of being a parent" but if those are not the circumstances, I dont' see that as justification for deciding it's not a life worth living.

I think what you brought up is a fundamental bias in so-called "pro-lifers" when interpreting things said by "pro-choice" people. Nobody is telling anybody that they should kill unwanted babies. Abortion is almost never an easy choice to make for those that decide upon it, and it is the very last thing they turn to.

Not always. For some it becomes a matter of just convenience.

I just acknowlege that there are cases where the choice is justified, not least of them being rape, because I feel the amount of total suffering it would cause to multiple people outweighs the benefits to any single person.

And there, I must disagree. On this principle the US judicial system is skewed towards the rights of the individual, allowing someone who might be guilty to go free rather than punish someone who might be innocent.

...no pro-choicers will bomb your house if you decide that.

No pro-lifer will either. There are extremist criminal nuts on both sides of any issue. Doesn't invalidate that side's premise. It's like saying all Muslims are terrorists.

I also understand that pro-lifers approach the debate from a different perspective. They see the unborn child as somebody who can potentially become an adult human being with all the rights an adult human being has, and therefore to kill a foetus is a violation of its rights. I disagree with that, and do not treat somebody as an autonomous, adult human until they actually become that. It is the reasoning behind why you don't sentence a 5-year-old to life in prison and/or the death penalty if they kill somebody. I do not ascribe rights to a being until they are either outside the womb or exhibit signs of conscious life - which happens at the 2nd or 3rd trimesters.

And that, no one can argue; because most people who've formulated that opinion have done so to accommodate their own convenience and are usually unwilling to entertain the idea that they might be wrong, that life is life, no matter what the stage of development might be. It's that kind of thinking that had white people arguing a couple of centuries back that negroid africans were not really humans and were probably living a better life as slaves than if they had been left out in the wild.
The reason we do not prosecute minors is due to a little legal technicality commonly referred to as "the age of consent". In such cases a responsible guardian makes decisions which are, in the eyes of the law, in the minor's best in interest. Very very very very very seldom do those decisions include the death of the minor.

[osopardo]

I think there should at least be a three day waiting period. have the kid and then if it's not for you drown the little bastard.

XF!!


LOL

Have you ever heard of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"?