Nudity

[Broadsword2004]

local photagrapher had his work displayed at a coffee house here (Santa Fe has a lot of artists). The photographs were 90% nude women and most of them were pretty tasteful (i.e. beauty of form/not overtly sexual), but some of them lingered well into soft porn - one showing a woman's bent over backside as she peeled off her thong.
Anyway, customers complained and the display was taken down. The artist got a write up in the paper where he complained that he just wanted to show the beauty of the human form etc., and it just goes to show how prudish everybody is that we can't look at naked people without sexualizing them yada yada. The irony of course, is that some of his pictures were clearly sexual, and his claim that they were not was dishonest.


Now to bring this little story around to the thread - On the surface this thread is about why people can't appreciate the human form without getting uptight and why someone always wants to ban nudity.

What's happened from the first post on, however, is not a discussion of nudity, but rather a discussion of Nude Hot Chicks (hereafter referred to as NHC). We agree that we don't want to appreciate the beauty of fat or old women, and nobody so much as mentions nude guys (except one reference to Greece, but that wasn't a vote for nude guys either).

So - I put to the comittee that it is exactly as Oso stated earlier. The people that 'don't like nudity' are actually not opposed to tasteful nudity (probably), they are opposed to porn or perhaps public sexuality (the dirty little thoughts in your heads). Further, they are not fooled by the claim by that artist that his pictures weren't sexual (they clearly were) - they also aren't fooled by conversations like this one which are sort of about 'the human form' but really are about NHC.

My point is pretty obvious by now - There are plenty of prudes who don't like anything remotely sexual - but there are also plenty of guys trying to convince everybody that they are about 'beauty' not nudie pics... they also read playboy for the articles.



Also, remember when posting which forum we are on and keep it respectful of our female members

When I started this thread, I meant about the beauty of the human form, not pics of women in porn positions, like with their legs wide open facing the camera, or bent over peeling off a thong; I do not read Playboy magazine or any of those. I meant about what I just said; female beauty. Male physical beauty is fine as well, and I very very much love the physical form of the male physique. Maybe that makes me sound homosexual, but I am not (not that I hold anything against homosexuals). But if you are a guy, and say, "I love the beauty of the male physique," people interpret that as sexual. I am a very visual person. I love aesthetically beautiful things. Now, I will admit, I do prefer to look at females because I am a guy, so I am attracted to them, but the sexuality that makes me prefer to look at nude women pics (not porn, the artistic nude women pics) is more of a romantic kind of admiration, an artistic kind. It's hard to explain. It is not a purely sexual, "I'd love to see her pussy" type of admiration. I love women, and I love the shape of the female figure. Looking at porn, there is no beauty. You just get an erection and the animal drive in you starts up. Looking at pictures displaying the beauty of the human form arouses the artistic appreciation in you.

I am not attracted to men sexually, but I just love the male physique. I love bodybuilding in that sense. Having that look. That is what drives bodybuilders to become what they are. They LOVE that look of the male physique and they say, "I wanna look like that." But most people are narrow-minded and won't understand a guy if he words that as, "I love the beauty of the male physique." It just doesn't sound right I guess.

My point was in reference to people being uptight though over nude pictures showing the beauty of the human form, overall, not people being uptight over pictures showing stuff like a girl bent over. If you wanna show the butt, just take pictures of the girl from the back. Then people think, "Wow, that woman has a nice form." (if you photograph it right). But if you take a picture of the woman bent over, sticking her butt at the camera, that purely implies raw dirty sex.

Now, I mean, if you love porn, FINE, look at it, but it should not be forced on people. And I can understand I guess why some people would hate seeing porn on display, because of what it represents in people. Nude pictures showing the beauty of the female physique or male physique I don't think should be forced on people either because some people are just strongly opposed to any form of nudity and America is about people's rights. My gripe is, with the pictures that display physical beauty, I just don't understand WHY people would get so uptight over that. There's a big difference between porn pictures and pictures meant to display the beauty of the human figure. I can understnad people hating porn pics, but I don't get why anyone would hate the artistic pics. Like you said Gregimotis, a lot of people probably don't, and just knew that that guy's pics were sort of porn-like. But a LOT of people are opposed to any nudity at all (like my grandmother haha).

[gregimotis]

I can understnad people hating porn pics, but I don't get why anyone would hate the artistic pics. Like you said Gregimotis, a lot of people probably don't, and just knew that that guy's pics were sort of porn-like. But a LOT of people are opposed to any nudity at all (like my grandmother haha).

I understand what you mean - You understand what I mean. It's like a big love-in.

[osopardo]

Craazy, daddy-o.

[thunder_bunny]

I suppose it's hard to do tasteful nudity without sexualizing it. But I do like it when an artist used non-traditionally beautiful people. Not exactly fat-ass ugly, but something different. Ala' Calender Girls or something. Which is a totally chick-flick, but Anthrax was in it which I thought was pretty nifty.

[Tom Yum]

Here I am wondering nude about the street. Notice that my rolls sometimes have the same effect as regular clothes.

[squidd]

here's a question guys.

is it really possible to become a nudity/porn addict? by porn i mean both moving (DVD) and still (penthouse, hustler, et al.) forms of media, as well as artistic shots, sculptures, etc.

i know people who just crave for a new set of porn flicks every once in a while; and since this is the philippines, it's available for as low as US$2.75.

[Hikage]

here's a question guys.

is it really possible to become a nudity/porn addict? by porn i mean both moving (DVD) and still (penthouse, hustler, et al.) forms of media, as well as artistic shots, sculptures, etc.

i know people who just crave for a new set of porn flicks every once in a while; and since this is the philippines, it's available for as low as US$2.75.

Yes, it is extremely possible and highly ignored, often seen as macho. And the definition, as I understand it, of addiction is anything that interferes with the function of your normal life. So, if porn affects your married life (i.e., repetitive arguments over whether or not you should be looking at it), your finances, your spiritual life, going outside, interactions with others, etc, then you are classified as addicted. That is a very general definition, and I have read more thorough descriptions in other works. The following is a quiz given by Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker in their book Every Man's Battle.

Here's a little test you can take. You don't need a pencil; you just need to be honest with yourself. Answer yes or no to the following questions:
1. Do you lock on when an attractive woman comes near you?
2. Do you masturbate to images of other women?
3. Have you found your wife to be less sexually satisfying?
4. Are you holding a grudge against your wife - a grudge that gives you a sense of entitlement?
5. Do you seek out sexually arousing articles or photo spreads in newspapers or magazines?
6. Do you have a private place or secret compartment that you keep hidden from your wife?
7. Do you look forward to going away on a business trip?
8. Do you have behaviors that you can't share with your wife?
9. Do you frequent porn-related sites on the Internet?
10. Do you watch R-rated movies, sexy videos, or the steamy VH1 channel for gratification?

IF you've answered yes to any of these questions, you're lurking at the door of sexual addiction. You're inside that door if you can answer yes to the following questions:
1. Do you watch pay-per-view sexually explicit TV channels at home or on the road?
2. Do you purchase pornography on the Internet?
3. Do you rent adult movies?
4. Do you watch nude dancing?
5. Do you call 900 numbers to have phone sex?
6. Do you practice voyeurism?

...If you think you're a slave to your sexual passions, then you need to get help for your addiction by talking to a counselor or therapist. (You can call toll-free 1-800-NEW-LIFE (639-5433) and ask about treatment options. One option is a program for sex addiction called the "New Liberty Program."

I have a friend who suffers from addiction. We meet periodically thorought the school year so that I can help hold him accountable. One of his major problem areas in the Internet. He usually doesn't go on the I-net when his wife is not available, but to further ensure that he doesn't fall back into it, he has employed the service of www.covenanteyes.com This is a tracking software that he installed and it logs everywhere he goes and sends a weekly report to myself and his wife.

-Hikage

[gregimotis]

1. Do you lock on when an attractive woman comes near you?

Yes, then I might ask her out.

2. Do you masturbate to images of other women?

Women other than whom? My 'wife' presumably

3. Have you found your wife to be less sexually satisfying?

Not married however, anyone who claims to be sexually satisfied all the time is either lying to a-sexual.

4. Are you holding a grudge against your wife - a grudge that gives you a sense of entitlement?

What's holding grudges have to do with sex?

5. Do you seek out sexually arousing articles or photo spreads in newspapers or magazines?

I am attracted to women and images of women.


9. Do you frequent porn-related sites on the Internet?

See number 5, I guess.

10. Do you watch R-rated movies, sexy videos, or the steamy VH1 channel for gratification?

'steamy VH1 channel' ?????



Every person on the planet is going to answer yes to at least a couple of those questions.

[Hikage]

Every person on the planet is going to answer yes to at least a couple of those questions.

And that should make you wonder.

-Hikage

[squidd]

Yes, it is extremely possible and highly ignored, often seen as macho. And the definition, as I understand it, of addiction is anything that interferes with the function of your normal life. So, if porn affects your married life (i.e., repetitive arguments over whether or not you should be looking at it), your finances, your spiritual life, going outside, interactions with others, etc, then you are classified as addicted.

I have a friend who suffers from addiction. We meet periodically thorought the school year so that I can help hold him accountable.

-Hikage

YIKES! i'm speechless!!! maybe we should meet periodically through the school year too! jk

just a parallel point of view here: since "addiction is anything that interferes with the function of your normal life" then i guess if you made porn part of your ordinary life, you would be insulating yourself from becoming an addict!

but seriously, thanks hikage for your valuable insight!

[Hikage]

YIKES! i'm speechless!!! maybe we should meet periodically through the school year too! jk

just a parallel point of view here: since "addiction is anything that interferes with the function of your normal life" then i guess if you made porn part of your ordinary life, you would be insulating yourself from becoming an addict!

but seriously, thanks hikage for your valuable insight!

Sure sure, glad to help. I just don't think people understand the commoness and seriousness of it. Hope you gleaned something from this.

BTW - when you say porn is available for 2 something in the Phillipines, what is that? Movies?

-Hikage

[gregimotis]

And that should make you wonder.

My point is that whoever wrote that is selling something. They are telling us that everyone is 'addicted' to sex and we need help from them in order to save our marriages or whatever. However, if everyone is abnormal, then the behavior cannot be abnormal - it's like saying if you eat food more than once per day then you are addicted to food and need some help.

Human beings are wired to like sex and also to be sexually attracted to healthy (read - good genetic specimen) members of the opposite sex. Just because a group says that people should not be so, doesn't change the fact that it is.

Faithfulness to one's spouse is a somewhat separate issue. I mean, if we were never attracted to others and if we never had sexual problems within a marriage, then faithfulness would not be a requirement - it'd be a non-issue.

[squidd]

Sure sure, glad to help. I just don't think people understand the commoness and seriousness of it. Hope you gleaned something from this.

BTW - when you say porn is available for 2 something in the Phillipines, what is that? Movies?

-Hikage

before i horse around, yes it is us$2.75 per DVD disk. in the really seedy places it can go as low as US$1.90. if you know any Filipino ask them about the Quiapo area. porn VCDs go for 90 US cents.

that's 2 dollars something for a DVD. ahhhh..... 2 dollars for two hours of crisp, clear sense-surround, pure digital porn pleasure...

i'm not, not, NOT a porn addict. really. no, really... i swear... believe me... i'm sure... really sure... jk

[Tom Yum]

For H2H it started innocently, watching an R-rated Springbreak Frat Flick from the 80's at the impressionable age of 13 on one lazy Sunday afternoon.......by 15 he dubbed then spliced all the 5-minute steamy scenes from movies such as Jean Cleaude Van Damme's "Double Impact" and the shower scene from "Witchboard" and fused them all together on one tape....

[Hikage]

My point is that whoever wrote that is selling something. They are telling us that everyone is 'addicted' to sex and we need help from them in order to save our marriages or whatever. However, if everyone is abnormal, then the behavior cannot be abnormal - it's like saying if you eat food more than once per day then you are addicted to food and need some help.

I hear ya. It's a Christian book. I don't want to downplay the message here, but I suppose to the secular mind it's a bit extreme.

Human beings are wired to like sex and also to be sexually attracted to healthy (read - good genetic specimen) members of the opposite sex. Just because a group says that people should not be so, doesn't change the fact that it is.

Again, it's a Christian book, and any self-respecting Christian would be lying if he or she said you were wrong. God wired us to be the only animals on the planet who enjoy procreation. We are meant to enjoy our time here, but with spouses. I suppose it's like alcohol in a sort of twisted way. It's okay to drink it, but you need to espouse responsibilty. Sexual addiction is a perverse contortion of the origonal intent.

Faithfulness to one's spouse is a somewhat separate issue. I mean, if we were never attracted to others and if we never had sexual problems within a marriage, then faithfulness would not be a requirement - it'd be a non-issue.

I don't mean to preach here, but marital unfaithfullness is a result of our culture enjoying too much sexual liberty. While affairs have riddled our history, for the longest time they have been commited by and have been deemed the most heinous of people. CRF - Chauderlos de Laclos Les Liaisons Dangereux, which has recently been embrazened on the screen under titles such as Dangerous Liaisons and Cruel Intentions.

It has been since the 60's and 70's that affairs and marital problems of the sexual sort have augmented to the current levels. I am aware, of course, that to some extent the problems were hidden, in order to maintain the "family honor."

As our culture has opened the doors to the sexual revolution, propelled by the tolerance taught by the pluralistic society in which we live, we see the advent of statements such as "I need to be honest to my feelings." Statements of this sort are obviously an excuse to relinquish one's self of the responsilbilty to sound decision and to his or her spouse. More and more, newlyweds are asking preachers to omit the words "to death do us part" from their nuptuals. The acceptance of this omision relies soley on clerical trangression for allowing, endorsing, and at times condoning unions that are not only destined to fail, but assumed.

As water trickles down a mountain stream, so does the breakdown of our Judeo-Christian background that we have enjoyed since our creation as a nation. Sexual glorification through the medium of the same multimedia we use for our everyday occupations, poor parental teaching, and the lack of disciplined doctrinal instruction, has made sexual liberty permeate the dating scene, our colleges, and our schools, teaching this generation and most likely the next, that the direction we are taking of sexual disobedience is somehow helping to advance our society.

Many civilizations that have come before us fell because of similar problems that we regard "chez nous" today. The Romans enjoyed such freedom, including those of a sexual nature. They became lazy to their borders, to be conquered by simple barbarians. This "sexual revolution" is nothing new to Earth and it has NEVER worked.

-Hikage