Time for Putin to Nuke Chechnya?

[Ahoym8e]

I'm sure you've seen the news...

I'd be all for it if my kids had been killed or maimed by extremist muslim terrorists...

[EmptyneSs]

i dont know if u know much about the russia/chechnya conflict, but its the russians who brought this on themselves. it was russian soldiers who invaded chechnya and began raping killing and torturing chechen civilians that caused chechens to take up arms to protect their people. the chechens didnt target civilians before, only russian troops. but now extremists have taken refuge in chechnya and are targeting civilians, which really hurts the cause of the chechen people who want indipendence and freedom from russia. not all chechens are extremists, most of them are true muslim freedom fighters who just want to protect their people and their way of life. russia is now stuck in a bitter guerilla war with chechnya which they cannot win. the chechens have been fighting off invaders for centuries and havent been conquered yet. putin could put a stop to all the bloodshed if he wanted to by giving chechnya their freedom and pulling back all russian troops, but he wont. he plays off the massive casualites his army is suffering in the mountains of chechnya and tells the world that everything is fine and under control when it is not.

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Chechnya.asp

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/chechnya/history.html

http://www.kafkas.org.tr/english/ajans/10.01.2001%20Rahman%20dushuev%20ile%20roportaj.htm

free chechnya

[eXcessiveForce]

Yeah sure, free them.

Then they will create a nice radical muslim state, and 20 years from now america will have to go in and take them out when they start threatening their neighbors.

[EmptyneSs]

just cause someone is a muslim doesnt mean he is an extremist. the extremists are a minority. sux for u that u cant differentiate between extremists and non extremists, cause i know i can.

[EmptyneSs]

Oh you can? You are telling me that you know enough about their culture and speak enough languages to go into a mosque and tell me which ones are terrorists and which ones are the waters that they're swimming in?

The only country in which the Muslims make up a large majority of the population that is a democracy is Turkey and Afghanistan. Even Turkey isn't a true democracy because whenever they swing too far one way the military steps in.

BTW: You can thank the bringers of Mayhem, Madness, Death and Destruction for turning Afghanistan into a democracy and liberating the people from the Taliban.

What happened with our peace negotiations, have we reached a diplomatic impasse?

yeah.....i knew this thread was headed nowere.

[eXcessiveForce]

The problem is muslim countries in general have a tendency to end up somewhat radical. Now we have a bunch of murderers blow up a bunch of kids in the name of freedom. Well, why not just go find their families of these freedom fighters, make them eat a nice bacon sandwich and shoot them in the head.

Muslims do not police their radicals very well, they know who they are but stand by and watch as unspeakable acts are carried out by extremists. So in so doing they are just as guilty as those who commit the crimes.

[Ahoym8e]

Many pundits feel that the Chechnya problem is a home grown one, not an instance of global terror. They say it began with Stalins brutality and deportation, and continues today with the russin security forces' abuses.

Still it is hard for me to look past the fact that is is Muslim fanatics blowing themselves up, crashing planes etc. Some say it's retribution, not Jihad, but that is hard for me to swallow. Killing children is completely indefensible, whether the problem is home grown or not

I read a russian quote somewhere that stuck with me "No Chechens, no terror." (Besides Putin's terror, of course).

I wonder is the home towns and extended families of those responsible for the school massacre (and I am NOT talking about the soldiers trying to free the kids) were exterminated and paved over if there might be hore hesitancy to engage in acts of terror.

[Ahoym8e]

I had a business school teammate who was in the united arab emirates not long after 9/11 and he was told (by local business leaders) that the CIA was the one who crashed planes into buildings, as no arab would ever do such a thing.

Not sure if they were in denial or just supremely arrogant.

[EmptyneSs]

BTW: He's Pakistani, and when I first saw him this year I told him that I was pleased to see that he hadn't blown himself up.

yeah......as i said before, i knew this thread was so totally headed nowere.

[gregimotis]

BTW: He's Pakistani, and when I first saw him this year I told him that I was pleased to see that he hadn't blown himself up.

Then you saw this black kid and asked him where the best watermelon in town was.

[osopardo]

Point #1: When a group of filthy vermin find it justifiable to torture and murder children (and yes, I call taking a person hostage and denying them food, water and toilet priviliges as torture), it becomes incumbent upon the keepers of law and order to totally eradicate not only the perpetrators of such outrage, but also the source from whence they came, and any supporters or sympathizers; be it another country, a religious belief system, a subculture of society, whatever.

Point #2: Hand to Hand has so totally pwned EmptyneSs.
Dude, this is a discussion forum. If you disagree with anything said and your only response is to roll your eyes and say "whatever..." you're pretty much tapping out. Offer something, anything (it doesn't even have to be intelligent, just sincere and passionate) or just STFU!

[EmptyneSs]

uh, whatever u say dude^

[EmptyneSs]

i discuss and debate with anyone, but i wont with h+h. everytime we have tried all he has done is turned the debate into a joke, turned the thread into personal attacks, and honestly i dont want to even bother debating with someone who says shit like " yeah i told the pakistani kid i was pleased to see he didnt blow himself up". im down for real debates, not bullshit like that. and for u to think i was pwned by somoene who says shit like that instead of trying to debate for real just says ur fucking dumb as shit too. its no fuckin wonder i dont bother replying to people like u guys.

[eXcessiveForce]

then you may debate with me.

Do you consider the killing of civilians such as women and children an action that can be justified for any reason?

Do you believe that actions of sub groups do not reflect at least in part on the group as a whole?

Also, when a group of people within the given subculture commit acts against others, should not those who endured such act not be able to retaliate?

[EmptyneSs]

then you may debate with me.

Do you consider the killing of civilians such as women and children an action that can be justified for any reason?

Do you believe that actions of sub groups do not reflect at least in part on the group as a whole?

Also, when a group of people within the given subculture commit acts against others, should not those who endured such act not be able to retaliate?

i dont beleive the killings of civilians to be justified in anyway ever. although i did want to mention that it aint just chechnyans who do this, russians have been doing the same to chechnyans for years and years. both sides are to blame. hate breeds hate.

also i dont think actions of sub groups reflect groups as a whole. sometimes they do but not always. these issues are never just black and white bro. for example, u mentioned earlier that muslims tend to not police the radicals very well. well what about the iraqis? they couldnt police saddam could they? are all iraqis evil becuase saddam and his crew were? there is for sure many bad people in iraq, but to label them all evil is wrong.

for example, are all catholics bad since many priests now have been found guilty of sexually abusing young boys? no . they are a small minority who do not reflect the rest of the group. i think to say all muslims are bad is wrong, becuase there are alot of them who want nothing to do with the violence. there are many true muslims out there that realize this extremism only hurts everyone as a whole and doesnt solve anything. it jsut causes more bloodshed.

and about groups of people within a subculture retaliating...well thats kinda funny u mention that, because thats exactly what the whole school takeover thing in russia was about. i was reading up on this tragic event, and one of the children who was held captive said when she asked a terrorist why they were doing this, the terrorist responded something like " we are doing this because russians killed our children." so u could say these terrorists were retaliating because of violent acts commited against them. im not saying what they did was ok, becuae it wasnt. it was cruel and fucked up, but the russians do the same to the chechnyans. its a fucked up cycle of violence just like the palistinian/israeli conflict. each side retaliates for crimes commited agains one another and all it does is bring more bloodshed.