iraq aint crackin

[EmptyneSs]

yesterday the us military announced it was prepared to fight iraqi insurgents even if it takes decades. wtf?? before, the bush admin kept saying how we would only be there short time. now its established that were gonna be there for years to come. does anyone else see a trend? we are continuously told one thing, then its changed to something else. we are now bogged down in iraq, facing a guerilla war. also there was an announcement in iraq claiming that 12 different insurgent groups in iraq are uniting as one to fight the coalition. they say there wont be a drat, but if this goes on for a few more years, there is no way that there cant be a draft. its just inevitable. i hope all u ignorant, pro war faggots who still have ur heads up ur own asses are happy now with all the american coffins being sent back to all the ruined families waiting for them here. i hope u bask in the warmth and false safety u feel, thinking our country is now stronger and terrorism is weaker as a result of what we have done. this is what u wanted. also we all heard about how iraq is turning into another vietnam again and again, but sadly it is. we gonna be there for years, suffer more unnecessary casualties, more people will be killed, and then we will eventually pull out in defeat. u cant control an entire country of 20 million people in unfamiliar land, especially when fighters and terrorists are pouring in from the outside as well to cause havoc.

bad times

[EmptyneSs]

look at h+h always trying to chime in like anyone takes him seriously.


yeah, were making tons of progress bro = biggest joke ever.

[EmptyneSs]

That's right, somebody who writes like a second grader, swears up a storm, refuses to support allegations and refuses to reason is much more credible.

yes i agree with you, i am more credible.

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

ok, well, first, you said the terrorists started this war, which they didnt. both bushey and dick have said that saddam had no connection to 9/11, and, as saddam has publicly criticized osama on television, its pretty safe to assume that osama and saddam had no connections to one another.

how many weapons of mass destruction have they found in iraq?

and how come there are more terrorists in iraq now than there were back a year ago?

how come bush said to a preacher (you can find this story online) that america would not take ANY casualty's in iraq?

how come dick said that the iraqi's would greet us with dancing in the streets, and now theyre blowing us up every day?

why is it that the only countries that were polled in europe and asia that support bush are poland and indonesia, and why is it that the only country in the mid east that wants bush to be re-elected is Iran?

why is it that even england supports john kerry more than bush?

why is it that even though there are dozens of evil dictators who destroy entire populations through fear and genocide (north korea, and the whole of africa come to mind), but the only one we decided to invade is iraq? (i can answer that one right now, its simple, 1 word, OIL)

why is it that bush has yet to give a more detailed plan for iraq than "our plan is to be vigilant" (thanks bushey, i wouldnt have thought of that)

why is it that before we went into iraq, our purpose was "WMDs" and our purpose continues to change, and now its "to get rid of saddam"?

answer me those questions please. and then i will consider if iraq was worth it.

Kerry/Edwards 2004

[EmptyneSs]

btw , we are fighting people who are fundamentalists. the funny thing is our own president bush is a fundamentalist. he told reporters that he was sent by god to kill terrorists. wtf ? also look at all his bs anti sience laws. he is a jesus freak, a fundamentalist. weres our separation of religion and government?

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

"No it isn't. Things are said and then things are done which are contrary to actions. Despite the fact that Osama hated us we still worked together to face our greater enemy; the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Is it unreasonable to assume that despite the fact that they aren't great friends that they would work together to face their greater enemy; us? I do believe that one of Osama's men did receive medical treatment in Iraq."

well, we cant tell that things said and done are contrary by looking at the bush agenda (had to get that in, sorry). osama's men recieved medical treatment in iraq? ooh, tell me what that proves. im sure that there are some foriegners who have gotten medical treatment in america, but that in no way implies affiliation of any kind. and ok, granted, you have a good point with afghanistan and the russians, but you still fail to address the fact that bush and cheney have both come out and said saddam had no connection on 9/11

"A few vials of botchulum toxin and some labs which have the potential to synthesize WMDs. While that's nowhere near as close as the amount that was claimed by the Bush administration we can't turn back know."

those vials were, according to some experts, not enough to even be considered weapons grade chemicals. not enough to prove that the iraqis even knew they were there. hmm....... also the top weapons inspector in iraq just came out with a report that iraq hasnt had WMDs since 1998. and you will also note that we didnt go in because we thought that maybe saddam might make WMDs, we went in because "he had WMDs"

"So you do concede that there were terrorists in Iraq before the war? There are more terrorists in Iraq because radicals want to kill us and our troops in Iraq happen to be the nearest thing to them. Where can more destruction be wreaked; there of here?"

i do not conceede that there were terrorists in iraq before the war, because if there were, there were very few insignificant ones. and you prove my point exactly. now there are more terrorists in iraq. what was the point?

"You really don't believe that he's that stupid do you? He would have to have an IQ of a mental retard to not comprehend that in war people die, which would explain his knowledge of French."

i dont think 0 casualties is what he was implying, i think it was few casualties, and IQ of a mental retard? i wouldnt put it past the president who was almost killed by a pretzel. knowledge of french? do you mean to say he speaks french? i hope he speaks it better than he speaks english.

"For a while they did. Don't you remember the images in the media of them cheering, smiling, waving, and tearing down Sadam's statues? But foreign terrorists, their local terrorists and former elements of the Ba'th party saw those images to. Death squads then took some of these people out thus intimidating the rest."

i saw nothing of death squads, at all. show me reports of death squads.

"Oh well that's great logic. Why don't we have other nations who are looking out for their best interests look out for ours and act surprised when they don't."

i would comment on your logic, but i really cant understand what your saying. so let me try to guess. iran wants bush in office. there are 2 other nations polled who want bush, the rest, kerry. why? because ill bet they feel safer with kerry at the helm

"I don't know, but the great intellectual giants of pro football surely have great insight."

i dont get it

"We cannot invade North Korea because if we did we'd be hid by ICBMs and all our troops in South Korea along with the entire South Korea population. Perhaps stopping Sadam from reaching that potential was a good idea. Perhaps stopping him from continuing to massacre his people was a good idea. Perhaps if it was just about oil than we would have invaded Saudi Arabia instead. We can't stop all the evils in the world but when we stop some of them isn't that better than nothing?"

we also cannot invade north korea becuase it would be another vietnam, even worse than iraq, but you dodged the "rest of africa" part pretty well. if we are going to be a standard of freedom, and set a standard, should we follow that standard? if we are going to say "be bad and well screw you'' shouldnt we screw all bad nations. does a parent only disapline one kid? no, there was another reason we singled iraq out of all the other 3rd world countries we could have invaded, and ill bet it has somthing to do with oil

"Are you so blinded by your hate that you don't see the obvious? Those who are fighting against us get the same news, as you and I so giving us a detailed plan would mean that the terrorists would get it also.

BTW: Your candidate hasn't given us a plan either, but is that okay because he isn't Bush?"

well, we saw that when your boy rob navak screwed that active CIA agent, huh? i dont know, i dont think a plan for iraq would give anything away. im not looking for "were gonna attack faluja tomorrow at 8" im looking for somthing at least a little less vague, like, "were gonna starve the terrs out" or "were just gonna level the country."

"There were many reasons for going into Iraq, but the case sold to the public was based on WMD's. Everybody thought he had them so how was Bush to know that there were only a few vials?"

yea, everybody but them dang CIA.....oh wait, why did we listen to MI6 instead of the CIA on this one, when CIA came to bushey and said "there are no weapons." and the reason keeps changing when it suits busheys purpose. a year ago, we never heard anything about stopping the evil man saddam. we never heard anything about iraq's ability to build WMDs, we heard that iraq had them and were gonna kill us all.

"Somehow I doubt that."

oh no, trust me, i would consider it, but you would need to give me some danged good arguments. and i dont believe im ever gonna convince you that iraq was a waste, am i?

"Bush lied and thousands died."

i hope your not being sarcastic, cause i agreed with that.

anyway, i debate with several friends from school, and its never taken personally. please, dont take anything i say personally, and i will do the same.

God bless you.

[CKD]

Iraq is a hard egg to crack. Once we get all the terrorists, the children of the terrorists probaly will grow up to terrorist if there fathers instilled that in them. But we have to keep trying. You do not stop fighting because it is too hard. Getting Iraq back onto its feet is of course going to be hard but eventually we can make it. If we should be in Iraq is a persons opinion but we are in there and should try to make the best of it for now and try to get Iraq back onto its feet.

[adacas]

sniff...sniff...
do you smell that?...it smells like Vietnam.

[eXcessiveForce]

Maybe we need to look at a much bigger picture.

First, there are bigger threats to the world than Iraq, but it did seem to pacify a lot of people when we took out Iraq, (once the third largest army in the world.) China had a general who was reported to have commented that after seeing the invasion he was unsure that china could go against the US. (benefit, tiawan. Libya, decided to give up weapons. North Korea resumed talks with the rest of the world. Think of other countries that we liberated, Kuwait, now our friends who will keep pumping oil for us, incase they ever try another embargo or qatar, Iraq hopefully will follow suit. We took out afganastan and then Iraq, We don't have to worry about Iran because Israel will take them out, North Korea isn't really our problem, They do not have the capability to hit us with nuclear weapons, But they can hit russia and china and japan So why not leave it to the countries who would not back us in Iraq, They have plenty of forces lying around that they can use since we are busy else where.

As for terrorists, Iraq was not a terrorist state, however they had the potential to provide weapons and technology to terrorists, and would have done just about anything to get back at the US. They tried to assasinate George Sr. They found some sarin gas warheads, and Sadam thought he could bluff his way out of a war, Remember the orders to use chemical weapons and all the chemical gear that they found. It was a bluff and he got caught. He never though we would attack if we though he would use chemical or biological weapons. Stupid Man.

Have you ever considered that the terrorists pooring into Iraq helps us. In those cities we send in troops to draw fire, then we kill those people doing the shooting. Much better to have them in a place and acting like terroists, than secretly plotting against us and sneeking into the US.

If they had the capability you would see car bombs here in the US, but guess what you don't. There aren't enough people here willing to die for the cause.

America exports in culture through out the world, no country with a mcdonalds has ever attacked the US. do you get it. If we americanize the middle east, and they have stuff, then they will not want to lose stuff. so they will not die for nothing, Right now many of those people have nothing so what better than to die in a cause and be rewarded in heaven.

Obviously Clinton's solution of firing a bunch of Cruise missles at Osama had little effect except to get the Twin Towers knocked down.

You can think G.W. is dumb all you want, but he was smart enough to graduate from harvard, and to become president, as well as generate more money for his party than any other person.

What had he done for america, he got us through the clinton recession, remember it takes at least 4 years to see most of the effects of a presidents economic policy, But the quick work in the tax cuts made the recession the shortest in history.

What will the democrats do for you? raise your taxes, raise minimum wage (which will cost jobs when small business will no longer hire as many people do to increase costs) They will tax the "Corporations" (nevermind the corporations don't pay taxes, the pass the costs onto those who buy their products. So have fun paying for that 5 dollar Big Mac when they hit Mcd's with those taxes.

In vietnam we lost 50,000 people so at this rate, Iraq war could go on for 50 more years before it would get that bad. Face it, it's not vietnam, nor anything like vietnam. It's just a game of attrition. Take out 1000 for very one of ours. And looking at a recent study the odds appear to be much better than that. So run those numbers out a bit, if we loose 50,000 people over the next 50 years we will have killed 50,000,000 bad guys. Guess what there aren't that many bad guys.

Also realize that the numbers coming in on US casualties contain all casualties from operations, that means deaths from accidents, and injuries not related to combat. So it might be wise to really look into history a bit before spouting off what your uneducated parents tell you about the world.

To be a democrat requires that you never take economics, believe that the government can run your life better than you can, and that the rest of the world should be listened too when it comes to what we do.

Be afraid when the rest of the world wants the guy you like to win. Or to make it simple, play it safe and just go against Frances wishes everytime.

[koto_ryu]

Being a veteran of OIF, I feel inclined to at least add in my $0.02.....

I personally believe we should be over there. Not only are we finally showing the Middle East we are not to be trifled with, but the construction and growth of a democracy within the ME will be a huge stepping stone. Chances are we will probably be establishing permanent military bases there, much like we did in Korea. We won't be getting out of there anytime soon, because as soon as we do, another tinpot dictator is going to step in and 10-20 years from now we'll just have to go back.

While it is true they did not find any WMDs in Iraq per say, the main reason is because none of them were actually assembled so, according to the Geneva Convention, none of them were actually WMDs. They could not find the bio/chem weapons (probably because they were either buried or in mobile laboratories) but they certainly did find more than their fair share of SCUDs that were certainly bio/chem capable.

Let's face it, sometimes there are times when someone has to step in and put a stop to something. Many of the Iraqi people were living in poverty, living in ramshackle homes nearly a century or two old, raising sheep and the like much as their ancestors did while every day Saddam was taking a crap on his golden toilet seats. The majority of the people I saw (I was over there from Feb '03 to Oct '03, right before the kickoff) were genuinely glad we were over there to free them. Many were throwing down their weapons and tearing off their uniforms as they were Shi'ites forced to fight for Saddam. I still remember when we found these two kids, probably no more than 15, chained to a machine-gun nest and virtually out of food and water, with no place to piss or shit but they had to do it right where they sat, and they were there for a good couple days.

We are doing some good out there, and it is worth it. End of my point of view, I now return to the shadows and flipping out and killing people lol

[adacas]

ha if we wanted to do some good in the world then let's go stop some genocide and mass killings somewhere else. Sure Saddam is an evil dictator that needed to be put down but hell that should be been done by Bush senior. the only reason we don't go into africa and do the deed is that we won't get nothin good out of it and that can't be denied. there is more to this than fighting terrorism and taking out some old bastard of a dictator. hell we were fighting terrorism when we took out the taliban. now we're just playing spin the bottle with an m-16. and don't you go tellin me that bullshit about how the media is making it seem like vietnam cause i got buddies over there and they are not very happy about that crap. hell they even knew the guys who got in trouble for refusing to take orders. We got the bucks to make $32 million dollar cruise missiles but not to add a 1/4 of steel plating to a damn door for a truck. This whole thing stinks.

[eXcessiveForce]

You can thank Kerry for some of that, great guy huh, vote to send the troops but vote against buying them equipment, so that he can make a political statement. It just so happens that his political statement is going to cost more than a few people their lives. But you know he doesn't care.

War isn't fun, and there is no reason to go to africa because they have nothing of value to us, they tend to only kill eachother, and two many groups who want to fight.

The idea of rebuilding a country after a war is to help them become more friendly. Germany is an example and so is Japan we rebuild and then we become trading partners.

[EmptyneSs]

we leveled a whole country so we could make iraqis eat big macs and drink pepsi, and have the rich white christian fundamentalists in charge send their companys over there to cash in even more so than they already do. thats the bottome fucking line. please dont even try to say its any different, cause doing so would just be rediculous.


great we got rid of saddam( remember he was found hiding in his "underground palace") and his sons. u mention that as if that has solved anything. iraqis still live miserably, and they are still being killed. global terrorism has only risen. people are getting kidnapped and beheaded left and right. now there are bombings and attacks in the countries of our allies when there wasnt before. now muslim fundamentalists have even more reason to want to lash out at us. americans are still dying and getting wounded everyday. did u know we have over 8000 americans who were wounded in iraq so far. iraq is in total chaos and we are now getting bogged down in what could be a very lengthy and costly guerilla war. uh yeah, were making progress everyone.

either ur in denial or just stupid.

[koto_ryu]

ha if we wanted to do some good in the world then let's go stop some genocide and mass killings somewhere else. Sure Saddam is an evil dictator that needed to be put down but hell that should be been done by Bush senior. the only reason we don't go into africa and do the deed is that we won't get nothin good out of it and that can't be denied.

Think logistics here for a second. Have you ever noticed how BIG Africa is compared to Iraq? We would need a helluva lot more resources, manpower, vehicles, airplanes, etc. to even make a dent in that country, much less help stop the genocides.

me that bullshit about how the media is making it seem like vietnam cause i got buddies over there and they are not very happy about that crap. hell they even knew the guys who got in trouble for refusing to take orders.

The media is trying to make it seem like another Vietnam in my opinion, if that's not yours then fine with me. But as for the refusing to take orders bit, that's because when they signed the dotted line anyone of a higher rank than them can tell them what to do as long as it is not unethical or immoral. So if they tell you you're going to watch a post for 8 hrs, guess what, you're watching that post. If they want you to go burn the shit barrels, guess what, you're burning the shit barrels.

[HtTKar]

Africa is a continent, Iraq is a country. They in no way compare.
There are many countries in Africa, some of which are doing just fine.

Osama did not hate us when we worked together against the Soviet Union. We were allies.

Maybe Iraq smells like veitnam because more american troops are dying everyday in Iraq, than were dying in vietnam; on a daily basis.

But here's what irqs me. Bush repeatedly states that Osama and Sadaam had ties. So what! Bush and Osama had bussiness relations together. The Bin Laden family is very rich. They have ties with many people. Osama funded some of Bush's bussinesses. That statement was just put forth to the american public to make it easy to invade.

Noone brings up the fact that Bush had ties with Osama, that Osama was in dialisis treatment on september 11th, and the US knew where he was, the fact that Bush's grandfather funded the Nazi party, that Bush as a draft dodger, and a failure as a bussinessman. If his father wasn't a rich politician...Bush is a bum in rich mans clothes.

http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm

Then Osama states that he attacked the US because of the Israel/Palestinian relationship. But the coward did not terrorize Israel. He used his agenda to draw peoples emotions into attacking America. Bush used his agenda to draw peoples emotions towards attacking Iraq (eventhough he claims Afghanastan was to blame). Why didn't Bush just lie and state that Iraq attacked us?

Lets face it. Osama and Bush are the same person. Fundamentalist retards rich off daddys money, intent on ruining other peoples lives, and destroying the world.

The difference is Osama lives in a fricken cave. We pay millions of dollars to support Bush's lifestyle.

Here's where I am now. I remember back in the early 90's. All the programs coming out were all republican ideas. The Republican party of today in no way even resembles that of the early 90s. The republican party now is just using the party ballot to get votes; These are not republicans. They keep enlarging the government, and weakening our national defense. The democrats are a bunch of republican wannabees, afraid to stick up for any of thier own ideas. Independants are not even allowed on the Ballot.

What kind of country are we living in where people are afraid to ask questions?
I either have to get into politics, or move out of this country.