Do you have a religion?

[MatthewAlphonso]

Evolution is a theory as in Darwin's theory of evolution; it is an explanation. Yes, the law of gravity proves something that allready existed.

Again, your definition of theory is in opposition to the contextual definition of theory.

Yes, gravity is a fascinating force isn't it. The inverse square rule governs so many of our forces...but how did this force come into existance?

From my religious standpoint, I would say that one of the gods willed it into being. From a scientific standpoint I would say that it has existed since the beginngin of the big bang, perhaps even before then.

About the past, there were times that religion became extremely powerfull and because of it, man became corrupt. That's true, but as you know power corrupts.

I do not believe the 1st crusade, nor the Great Inquisition were based upon corruption they were simply a means of conversion, even forcefully, forcing these great sinners to be saved.

People are born sinners and some will sin greatly against others, taking lives and ruining others. Have you noticed how things work themselves out? Some people call it karma, but there are so many documented incidents specifically where prayer and faith have brought people through amazing circumstances.

I have not noticed things working out evenly, my life as a Christian was not great, I felt empty, always worn out, bad things would consistently happen to me. My prayer felt like I was talking to no one. Now that I have converted, life is pretty good. I feel energetic and free, as if great bonds have dropped from my body. My prayers feel good and full, as if my dieties are listening. Our gods are not just out there, some invisible being (in the Hebrew and Greek texts God is neither male or female) watching us, they are part and whole of us, we feel the gods in every action, rather than worship them we celebrate with them.

You are free to practice whichever religion you choose (you won't hear this coming out of many Christian's mouths), but I think living testimonies from people's lives are very convincing and awesome considering what has happened to them and how there life changed by following the Bible. The wisdom of the Bible is a great thing.

I will admit that the Bible has great wisdom within it. But in the end it is a heavily edited and poorly translated (in most cases) holy book. It has been edited over the centuries in order to reflect the political needs of the time (IE: King James Version) But what really matters are the lessons learned and the message. Those are still there, it just requires you to read between the lines.

Last thoughts, Christianity does not make one an exclusive political conservative. Need proof?

I understand that. But being a fundamentalist does make you a conservative. And the Conservative side does promote all kinds of Christian views.

Read the Bible.

I have read the Bible, still occasionally do (nothing wrong with reading, I expect any self respecting Chrisitian to read the Qu'ran and the Torah). But the Bible mentions no Christians. Yeshua was a Jew, as well all of his apostles. Now, he was a rather liberal Jew, but still a Jew.

[Tom Yum]

From my religious standpoint, I would say that one of the gods willed it into being. From a scientific standpoint I would say that it has existed since the beginngin of the big bang, perhaps even before then..

From a scientific standpoint, the big bang is also a theory. Its a pretty good explanation, but again its a theory, not a law.

I do not believe the 1st crusade, nor the Great Inquisition were based upon corruption they were simply a means of conversion, even forcefully, forcing these great sinners to be saved...

My context was during the era of pardoners, whom accepted fees to relinquish sins. I could never beat someone to evangalize them. Fortunately, the new Testament talks about how we are to walk amongst those who are non-Christians and its not supposed to be vengeful and judgemental despite what you might see.

Being righteous is important, though.

Our gods are not just out there, some invisible being (in the Hebrew and Greek texts God is neither male or female) watching us, they are part and whole of us, we feel the gods in every action, rather than worship them we celebrate with them....

I'd like to ask what made you become a Christian in the first place. Not trying to grill you, just curious.

But we Christians also celebrate with God. Christmas (allthough many tend to believe its the celebration of Santa Claus ).

I will admit that the Bible has great wisdom within it. But in the end it is a heavily edited and poorly translated (in most cases) holy book. It has been edited over the centuries in order to reflect the political needs of the time (IE: King James Version) But what really matters are the lessons learned and the message. Those are still there, it just requires you to read between the lines.

I agree. The wisdom is amazing!

I understand that. But being a fundamentalist does make you a conservative. And the Conservative side does promote all kinds of Christian views. I have read the Bible, still occasionally do (nothing wrong with reading, I expect any self respecting Chrisitian to read the Qu'ran and the Torah). But the Bible mentions no Christians. Yeshua was a Jew, as well all of his apostles. Now, he was a rather liberal Jew, but still a Jew.

Yes, Jesus was a Jew. Some folks put funny bumper stickers on their cars saying "My boss is a Jewish Carpenter." The book of John distinguishes between Christians and Jews, as do other books. Since our religion originated from the Middle East, we share some similarities from the other major religions.

I'm not a perfect Christian, but I work at it and its changing my life for the better. God answers prayers.

I think I will read both books someday, but everything that I've learned about Islam and Judaism is from talking with friends who come from those faiths (Gasp - you mean Tom the dorky nerd with absolutely no social skills and tieny brain has friends whom are different... )

Did you know that Pope John Paul was the first Pope to visit a Mosque and to pray to God with Muslim Clerics?

He did not insult or speak badly of Muslims, he treated them as God's children.

[MatthewAlphonso]

From a scientific standpoint, the big bang is also a theory. Its a pretty good explanation, but again its a theory, not a law.

All theories are explanations we already discussed that.


There is also something called Intelligent Design Theory which is essentially Christian Creationism except they replace God with "A superior being" and 7 days with "thousands of years". as of yet, no respectable scientist has backed it and there is no evidence to support it.

I'd like to ask what made you become a Christian in the first place. Not trying to grill you, just curious.

I was raised in a rather liberal Catholic family. I explored other areas of Christianity, eventually making my own form based on Gnosticism. Eventually I left Christianity completley, though I still respect the man for his teachings.

But we Christians also celebrate with God. Christmas (allthough many tend to believe its the celebration of Santa Claus ).

Christmas was originally a pagan holiday. but that's beyond the point.

I still see little of the celebration with Yaweh isn't it primarily a celebration of the Birth of Yeshua. It may have been simply my Christian experience but it seemed more of a celebration of the family and the celebration of the birth of Yeshua.

[Tom Yum]

There is also something called Intelligent Design Theory which is essentially Christian Creationism except they replace God with "A superior being" and 7 days with "thousands of years". as of yet, no respectable scientist has backed it and there is no evidence to support it..

I don't know much about Intelligent Design but I have heard of it on the radio now and then.

The Bible is not a science text; you could not use it to tell you how to determine kinetic energy of atomic particles approaching the speed of light...likewise, a science text can't take a struggling, homeless kid in the projects - clean up his life and teach him how to live and how to be a man.

I still see little of the celebration with Yaweh isn't it primarily a celebration of the Birth of Yeshua. It may have been simply my Christian experience but it seemed more of a celebration of the family and the celebration of the birth of Yeshua.

Catholics believe that the Trinity are 3 different things, whereas other denominations believe that they are all God. Therefore, Jesus is God and the celebration of his birth is a celebration of God. The New Testament makes alot of references to Jesus as God.

[eXcessiveForce]

funny change the wording a bit and you end up with a different view point.

Science is a philosphy. In fact it is a philosophy of attaining knowledge.
Christianity is the life philosophy of Jesus.
the same can be said of most of the other religons.


Science can also be a religion.

[cakegirl]

I am nothing.

[Sensei Saki]

I am glad to hear that you are nothing.

[cakegirl]

Sensei Saki, I am glad to hear that you are glad.

[Garland]

Since when was this thread about intelligent and intellectual debate?!!
Somebody say something offensive and pompous or I may lose interest.
And since I believe I AM God...I may make these requests of my peoples...
Don't make me shake my wrathful hand! (c'mon, I'm leaving this post right open for all sorts of witty and catty retorts, so come with it. Bring the mother-fuckin' ruckus.)

[Garland]

God is dead...or it least he/she/it should be....I mean, damn, isn't it just too passe? I mean think about it, when hasn't in been in vogue to be a decadent and hedonistic asshole, and now that science completely supports (or at least makes no attempt at covering "God"'s ass) this way of thought....I say we all get fucked up and light shit on fire.
Like...um...what are you guys' top ten things you'd like to light on fire??? (and don't say "you" and/or "the 10 people closest to you and your pets as well"...cuz I can see that angle coming.

[zhorner]

listen here garlic, i am god not you.

[MatthewAlphonso]

I apologise for the hurriedness of my last post, I had to hurry up so I could leave for class.

The Bible is not a science text; you could not use it to tell you how to determine kinetic energy of atomic particles approaching the speed of light...likewise, a science text can't take a struggling, homeless kid in the projects - clean up his life and teach him how to live and how to be a man.

Neither can the Bible, the unfiltered word of the Bible, as it is now, would bring up nothing but a person so consumed by their own hatred and bigotry that they could hardly be called a person. There must be a filter to make the person what they are. The same could be said of any faith. the Torah is among the ultimate horror stories.

Even ancient paganism is far from immune. The Leprechauns of legend are far from the little green men we immagine today. They were scheming, conniving, greedy little SOB's. The only reason they would grant you a wish, if they felt nice, when you had their gold was to get their gold back. Look at Norse legend, full of violence. And the Norse borrowed much of Asatru from Druidic Tradition

Catholics believe that the Trinity are 3 different things, whereas other denominations believe that they are all God. Therefore, Jesus is God and the celebration of his birth is a celebration of God. The New Testament makes alot of references to Jesus as God.

But what do you do at your Christmas celebration? revel in human greed just the way the Romans before you did. Even my Baptist friends make little mention of Yaweh or Yeshua at their feast, nor do they thank Yaweh for their gifts.

Whereas we feast with our gods. we give gifts to them. We party with them we toast with them. We love them, not because we fear Hell, not because they threaten us. But simply because they love us, and are a part of us.

Since when was this thread about intelligent and intellectual debate?!!

When it started, you need to expect this type of thing from any moral, intellectual, or spiritual Thread.

Somebody say something offensive and pompous or I may lose interest.

oh, how sad, you'll lose interest.

[Ripe-WithDecay-]

\Evolution is a theory. Its an interesting one too, but no one is certain how it fits into the grand scheme of things.

Sorry Tom, but this is one of my main beefs with religion, the dogma that "evolution is just a theory". The Catholic church has even publicly stated they do not disagree with evolution. The misconception of evolution is that it means common decent. Common decent is a theory stemming from the 'theory' ( evolution is both theory and fact ) of evolution.

Theories ( in scientific terms ) explain the facts of the universe as we best interpret them. Evolution is a fact, it happens, the 'theory' part just tries to explain how. I have taken Phylogenetic studies and this is something that always irks me, the ever so ready "I don't believe in evolution" instead of "I don't understand evolution".

Evolution is quite simply, the hereditable change in the frequency of alleles. This means the offsping of a sexual reproduced being is the evolution of the parent's genetic information. This is evolution, the simple change. It is not a progression.

Was evolution responsible for high temperature fusion of hydrogen into helium 40 something million years ago? Boy that's an awful lot of energy and pressure to be concentrated in one space...

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe, that will be reserved for the "Big Bang Theory" which is hardly proven, but does have supporting evidence.

[i]Evolution is something that we have created to try and explain our existance.
You could argue the same is true of religion, but under many dire circumstances religion has overcome statistical odds. It has refined the lives of those who have truly come to find it on its own merit.[/QUOTE]

Evolution came about in the available evidence from genetic information in both the cracking of the human genome and the study of wildlife. While religion may help people with faith, science does not concern itself with helping the mindset of the perceivers. Science, rather, attempts to answer questions in life with supporting evidence. Religion works the other way around, gathering supporting evidence based of dogma.

The reason science is not based off faith as theistic practices are is simple, it uses a scientific process. Religion is free to be practiced but it is often comapred to science as if science were competition, which is sad. They should be used in concert with eachother. Where science fails, faith will have to do until such time as we are able to understand our existance. Where science does not fail, and quite clearly answers life's riddles, we should not turn our backs in the belief that our faith is absolute.

[Tom Yum]

Sorry Tom, but this is one of my main beefs with religion, the dogma that "evolution is just a theory". The Catholic church has even publicly stated they do not disagree with evolution. The misconception of evolution is that it means common decent. Common decent is a theory stemming from the 'theory' ( evolution is both theory and fact ) of evolution.

Theories ( in scientific terms ) explain the facts of the universe as we best interpret them. Evolution is a fact, it happens, the 'theory' part just tries to explain how. I have taken Phylogenetic studies and this is something that always irks me, the ever so ready "I don't believe in evolution" instead of "I don't understand evolution".

Evolution is quite simply, the hereditable change in the frequency of alleles. This means the offsping of a sexual reproduced being is the evolution of the parent's genetic information. This is evolution, the simple change. It is not a progression.

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe, that will be reserved for the "Big Bang Theory" which is hardly proven, but does have supporting evidence.

The reason science is not based off faith as theistic practices are is simple, it uses a scientific process. Religion is free to be practiced but it is often comapred to science as if science were competition, which is sad. They should be used in concert with eachother. Where science fails, faith will have to do until such time as we are able to understand our existance. Where science does not fail, and quite clearly answers life's riddles, we should not turn our backs in the belief that our faith is absolute.

I don't like how science and religion are compared either. There's too much grey territory. However, I can say from my own personal experience that believing in God, prayer and living wisdom from the Bible has improved my life. Ever read about the life of King Solomon? Our society portrays Christians as people who lived boring and useless lives before they really commit to God, but that isn't allways the case.

Honestly, RWD I haven't studied much evolution and would not be afraid of studying it either, but my forte isn't in biology; there aren't enough numbers and fundamental applications beyond the planet to capture my interest. I might take evolutionary biology to better understand it.

I think very highly of science. Solving problems by making rational conclusions based on observations and collecting data is either neglected by our society or too often is exchanged in favor of manipulation.

Hope I haven't offended anyone.

[Tom Yum]

Sensei Saki, I am glad to hear that you are glad.

Well, I am glad to hear that you are glad about her being glad.